general scowcroft? and what is the--the george bush personal diplomacy from your perspective? >> guest: well, first of all, it was enormously invaluable. as the president said, people are not gonna change their national interests by any relationship, but how the work gets done, how the business gets done is enormously important. c-span: how'd he do it, though? >> guest: how'd he do it? he did it by reaching out especially with the telephone, the first president, i believe, who who routinely used the telephone for con--for communication. first of all, a bureaucracy doesn't like a president to use a telephone. he's out of control when he's on the telephone. so that was a little breakthrough. but the president used to pick up the phone and call people just to say, 'hi, how are things going?' not necessarily with anything in particular in mind. so when he did call and wanted some help or something, they were disposed favorably, and that is a tremendous difference. c-span: give us a for instance. talking to

that time served as chairman of the council of advisers and also by national security adviser brent scowcroft to took notice. together for then greenspan tried to convey what they feared might happen if oil prices went up by 15%. the economies of the western industrialized world were still absolving the oil shock of three years earlier. many of you remember that time in 1933. oil prices quadrupled destabilizing the world economy and triggering the deepest recession in the united states since the 1930's and put millions of people out of work and cost big corporations like pan am to appeal to the federal government for bailout money. in europe at that time soaring fuel costs have helped drive portugal's economy to the wall and weaken the economies of spain, greece, italy, and great britain to the point where the governments were forced to appeal to international lenders for financial lifelines. with the resources of international lending agencies like the international monetary fund and the world bank these countries had turned to private banks in the united states to help them meet their inter