so we can ask that question, is secularism, liberal secularism a kind of religion? that is a strong point, but it is not one that i am the first one to make. if you look at the work among others and most famously error clubland, the 19th century and 20th-century political religions like communism, nazism, we find that one of the most interesting effects of secularization in the west is that the secular state very soon became an object of worship. here i love to bring in a quote by g. k. chesterton. once abolished god and the government becomes the god. people do not believe in something beyond the world. there will worship the world. above all there will worship the strongest thing in the world. now, the strong this thing in the world now is the modern secular state which is why it has become an object of worship. that is why it has become sacred were made sacred, and we can historically trace this back to the french revolution. i hope you studied it. you did have a purely secular civil government but is so forward with its own civil religion meant to displace chris

it says it is working for the people, and a lot of egyptians, including secular liberal politicians agree. >> that there has been a problem between egyptians and a terrorist group. >> frida and her children are paying part of the price. her husband, mohammed kamal, a member of the husband -- muslim brotherhood, was one of the hundreds killed in the cairo district last week. >> my son asked me what we would do after dad's death. i replied that we will keep on protesting and continue what he started. >> like all the brother of its leaders, years in jail before the revolution did not change his views. the uprising against the old regime in 2011 was supposed to give egypt a new start. but for many egyptians, is feeling like the old days before the revolution. on the 28th of january, 2011, clouds of tear gas rolled off a bridge as protesters battled their way into tahrir square. among them was a man called omr. we walked across the bridge again, but he did not want his face shown because he feels the police state is back. even his secular friends look suspicious. -- look suspicious of anyone c

we always have this fantasy that's this secular liberal democrats are going to save the day, and they>> and we have seen example after example where they either don't exist or are unwilling to put themselves on the line. is there a way to try to somehow make a point about this chemical attack, wait for the evidence to come in as you suggest, but make a point without putting ourselves in this murky netherland of who we support or don't? >> there will be a number of things. we need to get to a political settlement as soon as possible. we had the same thing with lebanon. tens of thousands of people killed, eventually we had an agreement. we need that agreement again for power sharing in syria, where it's not the good guys versus the bad guys. >> kurt is there a way to get through this where perhaps the united states doesn't get entangled. >> i think this is a case where the u.s. needs to get entangled. it's going to be brutalizing the population, and the population, large segments of it will be armed and rebelled against the regime. or if the regime false and you have these extremists th

it says it is working for the people, and a lot of egyptians, including secular liberal politicians agrees been a problem between egyptians and a terrorist group. >> frida and her children are paying part of the price. her husband, mohammed kamal, a member of the husband -- muslim brotherhood, was one of the hundreds killed in the cairo district last week. >> my son asked me what we would do after dad's death. i replied that we will keep on protesting

they don't want a political order rounded and secular liberalism. they want to generate a political order that reflects their cultural values. they want freedom and independence and progress in the context of national identity. that is what the islamic republic offers them the chance to pursue. this was the difference of them in the constitution and even though the iranians who want the islamic republic to revolve in significant ways come at the end of the day even most of those iranians in the course of our visits, a number of those policymakers that we talked to have pointed out to us that they don't call themselves an islamic state. that implies that iranians know that they have not obtained. enron, the islamic republic is by definition something that is very much a work in progress. and they have made progress in a number of impressive ways. contrary to deeply rooted but ill-informed western stereotypes. they have achieved progressive outcomes in alleviating poverty and in promoting educational access and expanding opportunities for women in the

the secular liberal rebels are shattered. they are powerless if you compare them to the radical groups. it comes down to the dilemma here. if you are going to launch a strike like this you are degrading the regime. you need to stay together to safe guard these chemical weapons in some way. you can't put u.s. boots on the ground to secure them, and you can't bomb them without potential for environmental catastrophe. so you try to balance options. you need the regime to look after weapons until you find an alternative. but you want to teach them a lesson, as well. so no real good option. >> it seems like we are working against our own objective. degrading assad but we don't want the extremists. the rebels are extremists you're saying? >> there's a functioning islamic caliphate on the border of turkey, as well. the key thing they have to weigh out, he wants the signal to be clear. you push the assad regime too hard, you take the air force out in 30 minutes perhaps. if you actually degrade them too heavily the people to seize are

there's a difference between those who want our values, meaning democracy, secular liberal body and those american foreign policy. a big difference. the 33 million egyptians who demonstrated on june the 30th and again on july 26th against a muslim brotherhood, against jihadism and for democracy, not all like our foreign policy. actually, they dislike the obama foreign policy and are not sure with regard to this position. you may have people in the middle east pushing back against our foes, against totalitarian but could decide what we're doing or not doing and now in syria i can tell you and gashtd guarantee you, i've been living to the statements. those in op setiposition are lo at one that does not want to get involved despite we are making good statements about the gassing and killings but we're not committing to action in syria. >> not a lot was said from arab nations when the president issued that so-called red line on the chemical weapons attack. did i miss something or were those country absent on this issue? >> i don't know that, missed in the translation. when i go on arab media,

so not having any sort of liberal secular in that government is very troubling now. >> michael: a lotf liberal and secular egyptians supported the military when it ousted morsi. now what happens? >> i think you cannot look at this and feel like this is the military overstepping and a gross injustice that was done. just very tragic. >> michael: yeah, totally. how much influence does the united states really have right now? and is there anything the obama administration can do? >> there is always this threat that we'll take away our $1.3 billion of aid that we provide from egypt, but what i'm hearing from there is they don't really care right now. that $1.3 billion seems pretty insignificant to what they are getting from other middle eastern countries. but no matter who wins, we'll support them. >> michael: and do you see a settlement? >> i think we're a lot further from a political solution today than we have been in a long time. i hope we can move forward from here, but very devastating, and to not expect retribution, i think would be foolish. >> michael: nobody on television explains

liberals tend to be secular minded if not atheistic. ey tend to have a predictable array of moral positions and this comes from the liberation agenda and the quality and interchangeability of homosexual gay marriage, the right to abortion, perhaps even you have euthanasia, that is from life to death. liberals also favor big government and declare it should be secular and secularized. they mean by this that it should hold the basic worldview of secular liberalism and establish it by force of law. that means two things. first that the government should drive religion, especially christianity out of the public square and into the privatized ghetto on the other side of the great wall of separation. second, that the government should impose the predictable array of moral positions on everyone. and noting also that we have our own cosmological view, the big picture. human nature is self-consciously goblets. that is a reduces human beings to the matter of their bodies and treats them as one more kind of animal in no way distinct from other anim

with a crack down on the moslem brotherhood appeared >> my hope is that we can work together the secular liberal can work together with the moslem brotherhood appeared >> would rather win in a democracy at the ballot box than to have a war in the streets. >> i still believe in the road map that the military has put in place and i hope that we can hold elections in the next few months and a map man of the pier >> what is going on right now in each of this is a crackdown on protesters who have been camped out for weeks. >> we need to come the situation down and move forward towards elections. >> i find it difficult to find the united states support the moslem brotherhood. >> a large section of the egyptian. >> the u.s. government needs to be a little bit more balanced woods and the conditions in egypt. >> it has been difficult for families in egypt including my own because basically there is a curfew and they cannot leave their home or they will be all arrested. >> people are trying to hoard groceries and gas and other necessities. people are glued to their televisions waiting to see how things wi

the predominant group and the rebels is not well meaning secular liberals, it is al qaeda. lori: that horrible situation and the human tragedy is john dropping. is horrible, thank you for sharing your analysis with us. sandra smith brought this to our attention at the top of the hour, stock markets of a dock and the safety and play under way, rotation to the safety of bonds, gold and the dollar to a certain extent. tune in at 7:00 p.m. tonight, lou dobbs tonight, i am filling in for him this evening, joining me is special guest tom mack and tyranny of the u.s. air force, we will talk about what the president should do about syria and now. ashley: home prices are moving up. the case schiller index for june was in line with estimates, it rose 2% over a month earlier but prices were up 12% vs. last year. our next guest says as inventories grow expect prices to fade as we head into fall months. joining us is meghan mcgrath, executive director and senior homebuilder analysts, as inventory rises this magic number, 6%, you won't see prices fall down but they will level off. >> the

the islamics agreed on it and secular liberals and now they're at each other throats. we're seeing that in cairo. if you try try to set mubarak free, that could perhaps unite these groups, once again, or -- >> or further apart. >> yeah. >> as far as the people in egypt, i heard some people say, wow, we kind of missed mubarak. >> well, i can understand that given the economic troubles of the past two years. given the security problems and given the blood letting. i mean, we've seen perhaps more than 1,000 people killed in just the last month and a half. so, if you look back at his time, well, you couldn't criticize the government, you couldn't speak out, but you didn't necessarily have to worry about being robbed. i could see some people making that argument. but, again, i think it would really go against what millions of people had protested about two years ago. would really trigger a great deal of popular anger, i suspect. >> ivan watson, thanks so much. >>> we want to warn you about the graphic video we're about to show you. it is disturbing, so, you might want to lo

they have not had mobs of liberals and secular politicians coming to support them. there have been former judges who have gone to the square and said that they support the cause. what does this mean for the current situation? the military and the transitional government has a problem. these people will not go home and their numbers are increasing. so what do you do? you either go in with tanks and water guns and kill people and help they do not come back, or you have to kill more and more people until they do not come back. a big question as to whether egyptian people and the overnment have the stomach for further let shed. several hundred people have been killed already. i am not sure there is going to be the kind of support for that. the muslim brotherhood and people who support the pro-morsi cause have so much support. the platform consistently on which they have stood has been to call for a return to the constitution or a return to rule of law or democratic process, which i think is very ironic. if you watch from morsi's final speech until today, i never heard t

as you say very, very skillfully use the hostage crisis to undermine his secular liberal opponent. branding them as agent of america and trying the principle of clerical rule and from then on he had no serious challengers. >> host: yeah. i think that's striking. in term of the present-day relevance you make the point about being almost a key moment in the creation of modern political islamism as we know. it sounds like what is going on in egypt these days or early what is going to happen in egypt and what did the toppling of hosni new bar -- mubarak's regime mean? you can see paralegal between the rise of the muslim brotherhood and what happened there was a sort of early vacuum and jostling for power between a whole bunch of political faction in egypt and the cairo revolution was driven by, you know, a lot of western-oriented democracy kid. they're not the ones who were in control now. i wondered if you thought echoes and resonance in the story of the revolution in iran. >> guest: absolutely, susan. absolutely. i think what we're seeing right now is a process where the muslim broth

the ministry of interior who really want to get rid of the sit ins on the other hand the more liberal and secular forces in the government like the vice president and better day who are pushing for more democratic reconciliation however the situation is still tense the protesters themselves are building barricades around their systems they have early warning systems and they have a system whereby people can can leave the city now should they be attacked but they are remaining defiant determined to stay put i spoke to protesters yesterday who showed me their new bathrooms they build generators they got in in case there's a seize a seizure on the. since you have kitchens and they're building homes so they're really settling in for the long time so this deadlock continues as the violence is escalating and we have a lot of stories coming your way this hour here on our including a russian response to activists seeking to turn the winter olympics into a protest ground this against a law on homosexuality propaganda to minors and the interior ministry says no participants or spectators will suffer as a r

the minister of interior who really want to get rid of the sit ins on the other hand the more liberal and secular forces in the government like the vice president and better day who are pushing for more democratic reconciliation however the situation is still tense the protesters themselves are building barricades around there since they have early warning systems and they have a system whereby people can can lie. the city you know should be attacked but they are remaining defiant determined to stay put i spoke to protesters yesterday who showed me their new bathrooms they build generators they've got in case there's a seize a seizure on this it seems to have kitchens and they're building homes so they're really settling in for the long time so this deadlock continues and as the violence is escalating and a lot of used still to come in this program here on r.t. including china it may soon surpass the us as the world's top oil importer and the gas guzzling engines of its industries carried had full speed towards a global political and economic shift to the east those details just ahead for you . b

secular political forces. this group has included both political parties as well as the ngos and civil society organizations including rights organizations and perhaps most importantly on the liberal and secular glock have been sort of more grassroots movement such as the april 16th movement, the tamara campaign which we are playing leading roles and organizing street protests in 2011 and emerged this spring and opposition to president mohammed morsi and his government and the sort of leading driving force behind the protest that began on june 30th that forced morsi from power. what we have also seen and a lot of the analysis that have been described days when two of the three blocks of the sort of military and the old regime, the islamists and the liberals and secular we've seen several occasions where they joined forces and effectively force their will to some degree on the third block. and we can cite three or four instances of this. you can describe the revolution in 2011 as a sort of the liberal forces joining with the islamists and the brotherhood and were able to force mubarak from power. soon after years of the military establishment and the armed forces aligned itself wit

secular political forces. this group includes political parties and ngos. theaps most importantly is liberal block of grassroots movements. the april 16 movement. the campaign which played a leading role in street protests in 2011. they emerge the spring in opposition to mohamed morsi. -- the driving force behind the protests. they forced morsi from power. what we see in the analysis of egypt is that when two of these three groups. the islamists and secularists, the military and the old regime, joined forces and force their will on the third block. we can cite three or four instances of this and we can describe the revolution in 2011 as the liberal and islamist forces joining and forcing mubarak from power. the alignment saw of the muslim brotherhood and the islamists. they ignore the demands of the liberals. you could describe the presidential election in 2012 as the liberals unifying. supportedthem had mohamed morsi during the second round of presidential elections. him overrals supported the choice from the old regime. seen thently, we have latest configuration of the let -- the military

islamists, most prominently led by the muslim brotherhood, and a third group being the sort of liberal and/or more secular political forces. this group has included both political parties as well as ngos and is civil society organizations including human rights organizations and, perhaps most importantly in the liberal and ec lahr bloc, have been sort of more informal grassroots movement such as the april 6th youth movement, the campaign which played leading roles in organizing the street protests this 2011 and then this spring in opposition to president mohamed morsi and his government and sort of the leading, driving force behind the protests that began on june 30th that eventually forced morsi from our. what we've often seen and a lot of the analysis of egypt has described that when two of these three blocs of the sort of military and old regime, the islamists and the sort of liberals and seculars, we've seen several occasions where two of these three blocs have sort of joined forces and effectively forced their will to some degree on the third bloc. and we can cite, you know, three or four instances o

the third group being the liberal and more secular political portions. his group has included both political parties and ngos and perhaps most importantly, have been more informal grassroots movements such as the youth which played a leading role in organizing the street protests in 2011 and emerged this spring in opposition to president mohamed morsi and his government. what we have often seen is that when two of these three blocks of the military and old regime, the formalists and secularists, we have seen several occasions where two of the three blocks joined forces and forced there will to some degree on the third block. we can cite three or four instances of this. you could describe the revolution in 2011 as sort of the liberal forces joining with the brotherhood to force mubarak from power. soon thereafter, use of the military establishment ally itself with the brotherhood and were able to sort of ignore the demands of the liberals. you could describe the presidential election last year in june of 2012 as the liberals, joining forces and supporting

secularism egalitarianism, liberalism. high table and choirboys and cobblestones.you know, and the opposite of that comment is not have a separate common room. all mixed together. it's very egalitarian. it works interestingly and well. >> i series of interviews, we talked with a professor who founded a new college. and he talked about it being secular. is that a trend, something different in english education? >> this is private and privately funded. it's completely different kind of organization. oxford university is a very different kind of organization from that new invention. but i've link -- i suppose as with england itself, britain and self, increasingly secularization and education as in many walks of life. >> as a college president to you find you're spending most of your time on administration matters? >> it's a past full pardon. it just making sure that things are done well for the students. your turn to the spring and as much cultural and academic activity as can be into the college. you are presenting the profile of the college to the outside world. you

had mobs oft liberals and secular politicians coming to support them. there have been former judges who have gone to the square and said that they support the cause. what does this mean for the current situation? the military and the transitional government has a problem. these people will not go home and their numbers are increasing. so what do you do? you either go in with tanks and water guns and kill people and help they do not come back, or you have to kill more and more people until they do not come back. a big question as to whether egyptian people and the government have the stomach for further let shed. several hundred people have been killed already . i am not sure there is going to be the kind of support for that. brotherhood and people who support the pro-morsi cause have so much support. the platform consistently on which they have stood has been to call for a return to the constitution or a return to rule of law or democratic process, which i think is very ironic. morsi's finalrom speech until today, i never heard the word "law and order.'

surprising number of egyptians, and people that i'm speaking to in egypt, who we would think of as liberal secularse supporting what the military is doing with the brotherhood at the moment. >> well, as are all of our allies in the region. this is a position that saudi arabia has taken publicly and privately, israel, most of europe. so i think john bolton, while in some debates, he's, you know, advocating a side that's either distinctly american or sort of an extreme, in this case, he's standing with all of america's allies, who have already chosen a side in this debate. and we were talking yesterday about what james baker would do, sort of feeling nostalgic for the leadership of a james baker. i think most people on the outside, and granted, we don't have all the information or all the different choices to make as white house officials do in an hour like this. but i think a lot of people are eager to see america take a side. >> although i would think you found it pretty ironic to hear john bolton defending democracy to say it's actually time to stand up for the military. >> john bolton kept his di

they want a liberal, western oriented secular society that is not islamist.stinct live the united states would like to see in power but they're out of power. the question is, we have two players, the military and the muslim brotherhood. we'll either have an outcome in which the military prevails and establishes some kind of calm in the country or we'll see return to power of the muslim brotherhood and which one does the west want to have? both stevens and goldberg make the point it is an easy answer. we want the military to prevail, establish some sort of calm in the country. we do not want to see return to the muslim brotherhood which if they were bad before, and they were bad before will be even worse if they get back into power. anybody who has supported their ouster from power, whether coptic christians or liberal secularists or the military will feel their anger. and it will be a bloody, bloody aftermath. gregg: yeah, but here is the problem brought up by other writers. yes i read stevens's piece and it is excellent. but, the muslim brotherhood for 60 ye

liberals say you were brainwashed? why isn't it true if you just get secular leftism from elementary school through graduate school. do you know that here in cast textbooks are enough by will you -- must include the contributions of the transgendered? by law. you will have to have pages on transgendered contributions. people who were crossed over sex, or dressed in the other sex. clothing. isn't that absurd? isn't that totalitarian? i thought the purpose of the textbook was to tell the truth, not make groups feel good. but as i point out in the book, leftism is overwhelmingly rooted in feelings. >> host: dennis prager is the author. "still the best hope" is the name of his recent best seller. louis from florida, you're on the air. you're talking with dennis prager. >> caller: i'd like to ask mr. prayinger and his ilk what he just said about truth, why should people believe the bible when that's the biggest novel ever written? who believes the earth is 5,000 years old? how can you follow a book that tells you the world is 5,000 years old and hisclass commentary about the christian schools and the seminary, how does

liberals say you were brainwashed? why isn't it true if you just get secular leftism from elementary school through graduate school. do you know that here in cast textbooks are enough by will you -- must include the contributions of the transgendered? by law. you will have to have pages on transgendered contributions. people who were crossed over sex, or dressed in the other sex. clothing. isn't that absurd? isn't that totalitarian? i thought the purpose of the textbook was to tell the truth, not make groups feel good. but as i point out in the book, leftism is overwhelmingly rooted in feelings. >> host: dennis prager is the author. "still the best hope" is the name of his recent best seller. louis from florida, you're on the air. you're talking with dennis prager. >> caller: i'd like to ask mr. prayinger and his ilk what he just said about truth, why should people believe the bible when that's the biggest novel ever written? who believes the earth is 5,000 years old? how can you follow a book that tells you the world is 5,000 years old and hisclass commentary about the christian schools and the seminary, how does

liberalism. the desire to remove the church and replace it with a secular state aimed at providing pleasure gave modern liberalism its structure, police and goals the desire to displace christianity and replace it with liberalism defines the intellectual core of moral cultural and political goals of liberalism. as the liberals state takes over the form and functions of the church christian church from having any influence in the public square and it uses the power of the state to establish itself as the reigning worldview. that is as the establish worldview just like religion. liberalism is not therefore a narrowly defined political position. it is not neutral. it's a worldview every bit as expensive as the one that it tries to replace. since it's every bit as extensive it functions just like a religion. an established religion with its own specific dogmas and doctrines, that is its own foundational beliefs held sacred and unquestionable and teachings that follow upon them. that is the origin of political preference. liberalism therefore satisfies what scholars of religion colley functionalist de

they don't want a political order rounded and secular liberalism. they want to generate a political order that reflects their cultural values. they want freedom and independence and in the context of national identity. that is what the islamic republic offers them the chance to pursue. this was the difference of them in the constitution and even though the iranians who want the islamic republic to revolve in significant ways come at the end of the day even most of those iranians in the course of our visits, a number of those policymakers that we talked to have pointed out to us that they don't call themselves an islamic state. that implies that iranians know that they have not obtained. enron, the islamic republic is by definition something that is very much a work in progress. and they have made progress in a number of impressive ways. contrary to deeply rooted but ill-informed western stereotypes. they have achieved progressive outcomes in alleviating poverty and in promoting educational access and expanding opportunities for women in the shaw's r

the third group being the liberal and/or more secular political forces. this group has included political parties as well as ngos in civil society organizations and perhaps most importantly in the liberal and secular block more informal grass-roots movements such as the april 6th youth movement, the campaign which would play a leading role in organizing the street protests in 2011 and the mayors this spring in a position to president mohammed morsi and his movement. actually forced him from power. will we have often seen in a lot of the analysis of agent, when two of these three blocks of the military and the old regimes, the islamists and the liberals and secular is, we've seen several occasions where two of these three joined forces and effectively force there will on the third block. we can cite three or four instances of this. you can describe a revolution in 2011 has the liberal forces joining with the islamists and the brother had and were able to force the barred from power. soon thereafter use of the military establishment and the armed forces alig