. >> the founding fathers saw united states, america, as a secular nation? >> well -- >> you make this statement in the book, you said, "there was a treaty," that you cite in 1797, a key time, between the united states and tripoli. in that treaty the u.s. government says the government of the united states of america is not in any sense founded on the christian religion. there are also courses approved vision for the total separation

and i think most everybody would have understood early on that by law, the nation was secular, but by choice, the nation was -- in other words, its people were christians and there's always been that dynamic, people have always understood there's a tension there between a population that's largely christian but uses its freedom to choose christianity and the laws that say go ahead and be whatever religion you want to be. >> this is what i understand from your text. one of five of the founding fathers had any religious stressed denomination or affiliation and that was when it existed calvinist and that was pretty much of a god almost independent of jesus, correct, a watch maker god who starts the earth and then he leaves it on its own, a deistic god? >> well, no, in terms of the population there's the calvinists and the deists. >> way back then? >> right. the calvinists totally predominated among the population. the founding fathers were much more elites and yes, many of them were deists but in terms of the vast majority of deists they they thought about it in terms of calvinists where

and i think most everybody would have understood early on that by law, the nation was secular, but by choice, the nation was -- in other words, its people were christians and thehe's always been that dynamic, people have always understood there's a tension there between a population that's largely christian but us its freedom to choose christianity and the laws that say go ahead and be whatever religion you want to be. >> this is what i understand from your text. one of five of the founding fathers had any religious stressed denomination or affiliation and that was when it existed calvinist and that was pretty much of a god almost independent of jesus, correct, a watch maker god who starts the earth and then he leaves it on its own, a deistic god? >> well, no, in terms of the population there's the calvinists and the deists. >> way back then? >> right. the calvinists totally predominated among the population. the founding fathers were much more elites and yes, many of them were deists but in terms of the vast majority of deists they they thought about it in terms of calvinists where g

secular ideologies, not religion. look at the 20 century. you have national socialism, stalinism, mao, even fascism from saddam hussein. >> what i'm saying is that secularity is a power system. it may or may not be patriarchal. on the whole, i think it has been. this is a power system and it should not be given a privilege system of neutrality. >> what about the idea is that the fear is with the men around this table because you are the leaders in your community. you should be the ones who are actually stepping up to the plate and doing more. >> i totally agree. i think we all failed here. what is important is to come back to our common element, our community. but the human beings want to do? my father says, look at that, he wants to share. human beings want to share things. we should share our differences. >> do you think that mauled biculturalism is a problem? >> i think that secularism is a problem. -- to you think that mauled biculturalism is a problem -- multicultural wisdom is a problem? >> what we have seen increasingly are in areas of the netted kingd

audi[unintelligible] >> in history, all totalitarianism has arisen out a secular ideology, not religion. in the 20th-century, national socialism, stalinism, the cultural revolution, even saddam hussein's fascism. what i'm saying is the secularity is also a power system. it may or may not be patriarchal. i think on the whole, it has been very patriarchal, but it is a power system and should not be given a privileged position. >> but what about the idea that the failure here is essentially with the men around this table? because you are the leaders in your community and should be the ones who are actually stepping up to the plate and doing more. >> i totally agree. i think we have all failed here. it is very important to come back to our common element, our humanity, and what do human beings want to do? my son, what does he do? he says, "dad, look at that." he wants to share. we share, but we share our differences. >> do you think multiculturalism is a problem? >> i think secularism is a problem. i think having many cultures under the same culture is great, fine. having difficulties together, with happily. that is a gr

there's agreement the african union have come in support of the implementation of united nations particularly secular mr banking one has made it a priority of his administration to have the parties to a sure a that the referendum goes well and also that the outcome is reflected by the international community so i think the international community should look. beyond the referendum and try to help the parties. address a lot of the issues that will still remain even after a disease jews in one way or the other is there a possibility that certain sudan can declare independence unilaterally and if this happens made lead to military conflict like we witnessed say between ethiopia and eritrea i doubt it again i doubt it very strongly because there is at this point and as i said i'm not really principle irresponsible for the implementation of the c.p.a. but for what i can see because in darfur that there is not that likelihood because if you look at the enthusiasm with which the people of south sudan have registered for the vote. the interest of the huge numbers and even in the north of sudan where the turn

this is the complete secularization of the national news media. >> steve: why are they doing it?ike you can pretend it doesn't even happen! >> this is like talking about veterans day, but not mentioning veterans. or talking about the 4th of july but not mentioning the declaration or the revolutionary war. this is a deliberate attempt not to mention -- when nbc doesn't mention jesus or god once in its coverage, that's deliberate. that's a decision that's made, we don't want to talk about, that's controversial thing called god. which by the way, about 90% or 95% of americans celebrate on christmas day. >> steve: exactly right. merry christmas. >> merry christmas, steve and to all of you. >> steve: thank you very much. brent bozelle joining us live from the headquarters in virginia. thank you. >> thank you. >> steve: straight ahead, the hottest toys and how you can get them shipped for free. if you want some of this stuff, stand by. first, we're going to check in with martha mccallum with a preview of what's happening in 11 minutes. >> 11 minutes away. thank you, steve. a big win cl

secular religion in bob's earlier books. in this one he focuses more on the economic -- environmental religion. and he adds this other kind of point, namely that the nation-state has become the adjudicator of what religion shall dominant and that we're tempted to try to develop an established religion, an established secular religion in these modes. at another level which has already been hinted at by the previous speakers, secular religions are, in fact, dependent on major mow tiffs of the judeo-christian traditions. they also involve a notion of creation, a fall into sinfulness, a prospect for redemption or salvation, and they all view their own movement as a company of those who can be the agents of redemption. so as the socialists had the idea of the pro he proletariat e capitalists had the idea of industrialists or bourgeois classes, the environmentalists have the idea of naturalists. as this redeeming people. and they are all opposing each other in the economics model and trying to persuade public policy to bend against them. otherwise we're going to have hell on earth. so they try to establish a theocratic regime without god. that's a good trick.

sweep the nation or joining me to discuss it is to help on member of the board of these american conservative union and senior fellow at the institute for global engagement and also jordan secular he when rights attorney and director of international operations for the american center for law and justice gentlemen thank you so much for being here why are we even having this discussion first please somebody tell me. where there is evidence or you know where there are signs of shari'a law creeping into the u.s. or our system of tell you the first thing i was looking before the interview and i did a little google search there's an r two story from two summers ago that was on our team the headline of the story was sure real law conquers u.k. that was the headline of the story here the art. and what we see is a very common system of law we take a lot of common law from the u.k. as part of our u.s. law here in the country and there are since one thousand nine hundred sixty one from five sharia law courts now to over eighty five sharia law courts so if our t. has a headline sharia law conquering in the u.k. this is why we're concerned here in the united states talking about the u.k. b