to -- seemedded to be okay with former slaves indentured. some enslaved, emancipation by the statutes, ended up signs multiyears, if not lifelong indentures. the courts thought that okay for awhile, and also the fact that there was hiring of slaves, say, someone who was a slave in kentucky might be hired in pennsylvania where slavery had been abolished. now, the law would often allow a slave to remain within the state for a specified period of time, all of which is to say that the line between slavery and freedom in the united states was kind of in distinct, and that even as late as the election of 1860, although lincoln and the republican party tried to make a case for sectionalism, it's a political construction and reflection of direct reality. >> host: well, we talk a lot today about red states and blue states, but there are a lot of conservatives in california and a lot of liberals in texas. >> guest: absolutely. >> host: was the it the same with slavery? was there a lot of sympathy to the institution of slavery in the north? >> guest: i