in egyptian intellectual sekulow progressive thinker who was trying to fight back against the rise of intolerance that was beginning to sweep his country after 1979 and he had fierce debates with muslim thinkers from the brotherhood than other groups. and he pushed back against them in a public debate once where he said i will never accept that islam be insulted, i am a musl muslim, i will always be a muslim, you can insult communism and socialism but don't insult muslim. this is a progressive thinker talking. then he said. when you ask for an islamic state, which one are you suggesting actually as a model, this is the '90s. there were no successful examples, iran, saudi arabia and sudan had been failures. so this is the '90s in egypt pushing back against more conservative thinkers saying point to me one successful islamic state in our modern times and he goes on basing why the sudden obsession with an islamic state for 1300 years since the first century after the prophet, only 1% of people have advocated for a religious state all 99% have advocated for what we are state. so he was as

but if you go back 40 or 50 years ago, what we see is the dominance of sekulow government, sekulow ideology how the parties and groups were existent but they were much smaller, much more influential in terms of policymaking and being able to affect other groups in the society and how governments were acting in terms of foreign policy or domestic policy but over the course of the last 40 or 50 years, things have changed dramatically, i think the iranian revolution was a big turning point, also more importantly something that brian has mentioned, secular ideologist have failed at the middle east and throughout 1960s and 70s an early '80s. >> failed as leaders. >> in terms of policy, the fundamental issues were political and economic and they failed to deliver on their promises on what people were expecting and this is what precipitated the rising significant of these religious groups, islamic's or later on the fundamentalist groups and later on more violent extremist groups throughout the region. and the key problem here, their rise was not just in terms of their own popularity. within their