we are doing that exact thing, especially as it relates to human factors for automated or semiautomated, for driver support and fire support control systems. we are actively engaging, our counterparts on the aviation side, the defense side and others because we think there is a lot to learn and we don't need to reinvent the wheel. >> any others on that one? >> i would one simply agree with john but also you know, the human factor experts that our members employ, i think have brought expertise and they are bringing that expertise to bear in the development of the guidelines and just generally in the development of the vehicle systems themselves. so, are the things that we could learn from other sectors? absolutely but for today you mentioned are coupled although i would observe their that they are probably highly trained operators that you know, you have a little bit more control over then you do with somebody that is driving a vehicle every day, day in and day out for 20 years. >> on the lessons learned front, i'm just wondering, and given the cost and the time it takes for driving expe