but first, have a listen to sergeantjody stiger, an independent expert on police use—of—force, who gavetively resisting at the time that he was in the prone position, nor did he communicate to them that he was attempting to resist or evade them. let's speak to our correspondent larry madowo — he's in minneapolis. larry, we heard a short clip there, but bring us more up—to—date on what's been happening today. sergeant steiger has been testifying, and the summary of his testimony is that as an independent use of force expert, it was unnecessary and excessive, what derek chauvin did during the arrest of george floyd last may. he was asked by the cross—examination lawyer, the lead attorney for derek chauvin, "have you heard that it is awful but lawful, the use of force in some cases when you have a suspect who is resisting arrest?" and he said, "sometimes it is unlawful, it isjust and he said, "sometimes it is unlawful, it is just awful." so the argument the defence has been trying to make throughout this case, that use of force is unattractive but necessary, he seems to disagree with that.