but how many people go to the seychelles?eve it's a coincidence that this buddy of kushner's, the president's son-in-law, happened to be right near that meeting where apparently the back channel with the russians was being set up? >> well, you and i both know, chris, that prosecutors don't tend to believe in coincidences. that's why they are scrutinizing this very close, because this is a close friend of jared kushner. and while there are some nice beaches in the seychelles, it's not an obvious place for an american to go on vacation and be in text communication with this guy, george nader, who is a very important figure in setting up this apparent back channel. >> let's talk -- i'll be a little bit skeptical now. we have meetings that have occurred beginning in '16, well before the nomination of donald trump when he was just a candidate. there were meetings, of course, at the mayflower hotel in washington, the infamous one in june at the trump tower. there were meetings at the rnc convention, republican convention with kisly

gerson was on vacation in the seychelles prior to the meeting you reference.othing about the meeting. however, gerson declined -- his lawyer declined to say whether he has been contacted by mueller. joining me is ken dilanian. ken, you know it has an aspect of you know, connections to kevin bacon, how many degrees of separation. it always -- how many people go to the say shells? does mueller believe it's a coincidence this buddy of kushners happened to be right near that meeting where apparently the back channel with the russians was being set up? >> you and i both know prosecutors don't tend to believe in coincidences and they're scrutinizing this closely. this is a close friend of jared kushner. while there are nice beaches there, it's not an obvious place for an american to go on vacation and to be in text communication with george nader, a very important figure in setting up this apparently back channel. >> i'll be skeptical now. why we have meetings that have occurred beginning in '16 well before the nomination of donald trump when he was just a candidate

gerson was on vacation in the seychelles. he is not under scrutiny or investigation by any agency including the special counsel's office. how strong do you think the criticism is going to be when it comes to the scope of this investigation? we've heard cries before that robert mueller's scope was russian interference in the election. here this is looking more broadly. what's the response to that if that criticism comes up? >> this is a question you get all the time in terms of criminal investigations. you may start investigating one thing and through the course of that investigation you come across other crimes unrelated to what the initial investigation was. it's a little different here because we have a special counsel who has a particular manda mandate. that mandate allows him to investigate crimes arising from the russia collusion investigation. so it's not that it's outside of the four corners of the letter that rod rosenstein sent and we know there's an additional letter, but it's just a natural outflow of an investigat

if you look at where the sashlds seychelles are, take a map, it's in the middle of nowhere. you don't just go into a bar in the seychelles and run into a friend of vladimir putin's without planning that. it's just totally nonsense. >> so you think they may be trying to like in the same way they've gotten other people on sort of false claims and hung them up on that, you think that might be a line of inquiry from mueller on erik prince? >> oh, i think they're moving in on all sides here. you're looking at a situation where i think by labor day you're going to see a major indictment drop down. mueller wants to get this done in time so he's not accused of interfering with the midterm elections. he's got now the cohen documents which he's going to be able to look at, go through, catalog. he's got a possibility of turning cohen. he's got two major witnesses. he's got flynn. he's got gates. he is in the process of building a case that he can prove beyond a reasonable doubt. >> we should also say people other than the senator mark warner have said that they expect things to happen

ken, do you ever vacation in the seychelles, first of all?ld love to someday but haven't yet. >> maybe you can do some reporting and add on a couple days on the end. i don't think you need to be as great an expert reporter as you are in this to kind of question the explanation, but lay it all out for us. >> yeah. as you said, gerson's spokesperson is saying that he was there on vacation. he was not even aware of this secret meeting that george nader, the lebanese-american businessman that was there was telling mueller was actually a back channel. but he was also -- mr. gerson was at a separate meeting at the four seasons in new york, which was attended by steve bannon, michael flynn, as well as nader and some of the other characters. the bottom line for those trying to follow this at home is mueller appears to be investigating whether the united arab emirates essentially piggybacked on the russian election interference effort and whether after trump got elected they took steps to broker kind of an arrangement between the russians and the trum

we know all those players had been in the seychelles around the same time, just a week or so ahead of the inauguration. we are now learning that gerson, who is a close friend of kushner's and was in a december meeting with uae officials in 2016 also happened to be in the seychelles at this same time. >> coincidentally, he was on vacation. what do we know about any evidence that may have been collected by the mueller team related to this? it does give us a sense of the breadth yet again of all the different thing that this investigation is looking into? >> yeah, i mean there are a few things going on. obviously we only know what we know, which is a way of saying there is a lot we don't know. and robert mueller certainly knows a lot more than we do. but seeing different pieces kind of coming together. and with this reporting, you know, we have just learned there is a new person in this kind of web of individuals that mueller has been looking at in terms of not just russian interference in the election, but this uae piece. and we learned recently from "new york times" reporting that ther

erik prince of course met during the presidential transition in the seychelles islands with the head of a major russian investment firm. he was at that meeting reportedly as a representative of the incoming trump administration. the special counsel's office, we know, has reportedly been investigating that meeting in the seychelles islands and others. the special counsel's office has reportedly secured cooperation in exchange for an immunity deal from a witness who reportedly set up that meeting in the seychelles islands between erik prince and that russian investment fund guy. however erik prince does or does not fit into the larger russia scandal, we now know that robert mueller has got erik prince's phone and computer. that is, if abc's reporting turns out to be correct. the dow jones went off a cliff again today. it appears to be mostly because of the trade war-mongering of the president and retaliatory actions by our trading partners around the globe. harley-davidson, which iconically at least is probably the most made in america thing ever. harley-davidson announced today they'r

we know mueller will look at that secret meeting in the seychelles.o find out? >> look, mueller is coming to a crucial point in his investigation. i think there's a sense that he's got a couple of months here. if he's got something big to deliver, to deliver it. because, you know, come labor day, i think anything he does after that would be perceived as trying to do something on the, you know, the eve of an election. given all the criticism of what jim comey did, mueller's not going to fall into that trap. so, you know, we're at a crucial point. now, the eric prince story, you know, it seems in one sense a big tangential to the core issues, to what extent it took place after the election. to what extent was that part of some sort of conspiracy involving the russians and the trump campaign? you know, there's still a lot of murkiness to this. and certainly prince's answers that he's given so far have been inconsistent with some of the testimony that mueller's gotten from others about what he knew about who he was meeting with, that he was going to be me

and who knew that the seychelles was such a hot destination. i've heard it's croatia or lib lis bon. i guess during the transition, the hot place to visit was the seychelles, because certainly everybody in the trump administration seemed to go there or know somebody who was there. >>> now let's go to co-founder of axios, mike allen. mike, axios has new reporting on how much pressure president trump put on jeff sessions to unrecuse himself in the russian probe. and man, he put the pressure on, didn't he? >> he did. and this went on all year. so from the beginning of the administration through the end of the year. at least three times in person, once on the phone, the president saying to jeff sessions, you know what, you could be a hero to conservatives if you would do the right thing and reengage on the mueller probe. you could be a hero to conservatives if you, also investigate hillary clinton. also urged him to do that. joe, jonathan swan also reporting that the president talked about whether or not it was possible to confine the mueller inves

some mercenary leaders strike their hand at military coups like the case of some calmer austin seychelles equatorial guinea and can you blame governments for being an easy about working with pay and cease. i think you for government has contracted to p.m.c. directly and that p.m.c. follows the laws of that country and that it puts itself under the jurisdiction of those on forces governments have no reason to fifty m. c. in fact every time we have we integrated with the forces where we are training we live with him we share the same food as they do we live in the same type of environment they live in and we meant to them in the field. in those instances we are directly responsible for the men that the government to buy stendra a month if a p.m.c. comes in and isolates themself and one side of a military complex refuses to integrate with the troops or comes in and is obvious that what they are training is totally irrelevant i think governments do have a need to be concerned as to what's going on but we believe if the government pays us for a service that's the safest way to live it we don't

gerson's spokesperson says he did not attend that meeting, but he happened to be in the seychelles at the same time as these other folks, and he met separately with the crown prince of abe dhabi. so he's in that meeting which we know is being scrutinized by mueller. second, he was in a meeting a couple weeks before that in new york at a four seasons where he was -- it was trump transition officials, jared kushner, michael flynn, steve bannon, officials from the uae and this fixer who we know is cooperating with robert mueller's investigation, george nader. he's a lebanese-american businessman. so rick gerson is at the beginning of this meeting brings tony blair, the former british prime minister, according to his spokesperson, into this meeting to give a presentation on middle east peace. and so we know that that meeting is also under scrutiny by investigators. and so you now have this new sort of fixture in this web of folks who have come under scrutiny by mueller, largely related to the uae, not russia. >> for those not deep in the russia web, why does this matter and relate to jare

some mercenary leaders strike their hand at military coups like the case of some calmer austin seychelles equatorial guinea yeah can you blame governments for being an easy about working with pay and cease. i think you for government has contracted to p.m.c. directly and that p.m.c. follows the laws of that country and that it puts itself under the jurisdiction of those on forces governments have no reason to fifty mc infect every time we have we integrated with the forces where we are training we live with him we share the same food as they do we live in the same type of environment they live in and we mentor them in the field. in those instances we are directly responsible for the men that the government to spiced and drown the money if the p.m.c. comes in and isolates themself and one side of a military complex refuses to integrate with the troops or comes in and is obvious that what they are training is totally irrelevant i think that governments do have a need to be concerned as to what's going on but we believe if the government pays us for assist that's the safest way to live it we

that the big market for them the seychelles . and the dead there is money so that's why they get so much money back and so he is indeed the global guy very much as we can see by the fans here. it's great to. square the holiday gift it's it's like going to a match ups and i have to leave it at home ok for president thank you very much and thank you very. well. laurie a stay here it's amazing. to both of you thank you. russia will pretty much know whether the team is through to the knockout stages off the today's game between saudi arabia. a win or draw for your of why is all this needed saudi arabia will give a role so much to be staged. meanwhile teams in group b. stop playing games on wednesday portugal takes on morocco. taking place right here in moscow and will be tough for the moroccans the oculus lions as they're also. no not taking part in the world cup for the first time in twenty years and iraq and its central defenders who are federal told us that his team will do their. business and it is a mixed team there are players

from very low over the seychelles political party organizations he climbed up the same as he became the mayor of this metropolitan city and he promised to become the president he's the president right now and on the elections that is that it takes place a little twenty four he's talking which turkey's political system from parliament here we have to make such a risk that actual one. people are expecting him to say very good to me about economy because i like to see the story was actually about the big things but for the last couple of years especially since the years this year turkish lira has been going down and people have been suffering in a way. the spike t.v. shows high growth rates is that the people are having economic problems because they have money is appreciating it gets to us the older like many other emerging countries we are waiting for president to act on to come and address this crowd that is the. center more about one of the opposition policies holding their rally presumably not too far away from you in another part of istanbul. yes. the one of the opposition parties pr

and it all comes together in the seychelles meeting you discussed in past a meeting convened by the unitedb emirates and george nader bringing together er of the trump administration in their view with a businessman close to vladimir putin. and i thi we know for sure that that meeting has caught the interest of the special prosecutor and that they're asking questions about nader, about nader's connections with russia, about efforts by the uae and possibly saudi arabia to try to help the trump campaign and whether or not there was some communication there. all of that to the best of my knowledge does not invol barrick. tom barrick enters the picture earlier, trying to build a bridge, as you say between the trump campaign and therab leaders. en we we doing the nader reporting i wondered, how is it the uae and saudi araby can feel so confident and positive about trump that the uae would send this emissary to the trump camp offering their help? some of that becomes clear when you look at the communications that tom bar ache had with the emiraty ambassador. >> tom barrick had a preexisting rela

and there are new reasons to ask questions about the other far east meeting, the one in the seychelles

. >> robert mueller has, quote, "gathered evidence that a secret meeting in the seychelles just beforeation of donald trump was an effort to establish a back channel between the incoming administration and the kremlin." erik prince, the founder of the private military company blackwater, met with a russian official close to president vladimir putin. a witness cooperating with mueller has told investigators the meeting was set up in advance, so that a representative of the trump transition could meet with an emissary from moscow to discuss future relations between the two countries. >> seth: wait. you're telling me a secret meeting on a remote island in the indian ocean between a mercenary and an agent of the kremlin turned out to be suspicious? [ laughter ] where was the meeting? inside a volcano the shape of a skull? [ laughter ] "we'll get down to business shortly, gentlemen, but first, enjoy your zebra steaks! [ laughter ] orphans, serve us!" [ laughter ] now, the meeting is of special interest to mueller apparently because prince has lied about it. he later told investigators the m

the campaign, he wrote foreign policy papers, donations made, and then, of course, there's this seychellesnuary 2017 that the mueller team has been investigating. of interest in particular, we've been told is that there was a meeting between erik prince and a russian banker and, of course, there's been a lot of speculation that this meeting and that the russians were trying to set up a back-door channel, back-door communications with trump who was eventually about weeks away from being in the white house. perhaps that could be one of the aspects that mueller is looking at here. the other thing is his contacts. erik prince also has contacts and ties to a middle eastern kind of shadowy, shady kind of character who has been interviewed by bob mueller and cooperating with mueller and in that cooperation in this middle eastern man's cooperation erik prince's name has come up. there's a host of issues here that erik prince could be questioned about. of course, as with most things in this, brooke, with mueller, we don't exactly know, but certainly there are certain aspects and tea leaves we can r

and it all comes together in the seychelles meeting which you discussed in the past.ited arab of emirates where they brought together a representative of the trump administration, in their view, with a business man close to vladimir putin. i think we know for sure that that meeting has caught the interest of the special prosecutor and that they're asking questions about nader, about nader's connections with russia, about efforts by the uae and possibly saudi arabia to try to help the trump campaign and whether or not there was some communication there. all of that, to my knowledge, does not involve tom barrick. he enters the picture earlier trying to build a bridge as you between the trump campaign and the arab leaders. when we were doing the nader reporting, i wondered how is it the uae and saudi arabia can feel so positive about trump that they would send this emissary to the trump campaign to offer their help. some of that is clear when you look at the communications that tom barrick had with the ambassador. >> he also had a relationship with paul manafort, as you

then bolivia, the cuba and the seychelles. britain at 49.n too long, but it will looks to be moving in the right direction. and when women are in political office, they do change things. in the united states, women have a better track record than men of getting bills passed through congress. so having women actually running makes a difference as well in terms of legislation and the outcomes to the country. why do you think that is? it's the sexist to say, women are better at compromising? that would be my argument. especially men in positions of power tend to get testosterone fuelled and dig their heels in. guys i said it! you said it, not me! here in the us, what tends to happen is women have a better track record working across the aisle, so you get more democratic women working with republican colleagues and vice versa, and that seems to be a winning formula for actually getting things done. a bit like this programme, we have a man and woman and get things done! coming up next on bbc world news, ros atkins is here with outside source. for