of the cases, i would point out to phil, who is an expert on khalid shakes mohammed, -- khalid shaikh mohammed he spent years in north carolina. we can all name a dozen people who came here as students who were somehow immune to the charms of the united states. >> from libya. >> yes. >> i love his name. >> dozens of people who have come here and have not fallen in love, fallen out of love with the american idea. can you talk about that as a national security problem for a minute? >> the most important id log from modern islammist extremism is a fellow who became ral calized by living in rural colorado in the early 1940's and 1950's and so shocked by what he saw when he returned to his native egypt -- >> qatar. >> yes, he developed a whole ideology in which the west was a source of all evil. it's definitely true someone can go to an american college campus and conclude the united states is a cesspool of sin and should be wiped from the face of the earth. unfortunately, that's not the experience you would have at the university of virginia, i will just tell you right now. >> it's a very high-min