[applause] host: shamus hughes. guest: i try to avoid politics. we look at these type of things. the redundancy in the system actually matters a great deal. a contactsay takedown is important. they clearly affects the network when twitter steps up to the plate and take down content. it is not the all and all. --ben it is much more how do you take down content? how do you push alternative messaging? -- introduce seeds of doubt seek a given person interventions because we will never be a with a fully radicalize someone online. how do you put those things together? how do you get social media companies who had their very nature are libertarian? is a free and open society online. they have essentially been forced into this position of takedown. when you get them another alternative in terms of how do you connect -- i think back to my old job in government. pays to be the community engagement officer. i was in sacramento two years ago. i said what you want to do? i want to take a video of myself put it on youtube. that's great. no one is going to watch it. it will be 45 minutes long.