. >> and julio -- >> we have shannon moore who wrote a blog and said here are my lessons . . . then we also have richard, who talks about . . . can you talk about how impact that the created? >> a few things have happened, one is that the fishing community were very deeply hurt, and the herring population went from about 120 metric tons to 30 metric tons, albeit there has been no commercial herring fisheries since about '92. there's only limited [ inaudible ] there's no crab fishery in the sound. all of these things have been -- have over time hurt people because, you know, they bought in the permit and can't use them. >> patty you said that a lot of the scientists have played with what you call a phd play ground. explain that critique to us. >> well, because people come and they do their research projects and they get their master's degrees or phd's or whatever it is, and then they go home, and the people that live there are still there, and the oil is still there in some areas, and populations are still not back to prespill levels, and so that's pretty much what people were s

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