we explore the moral issues with shaun casey, professor of ethics at wesley theological seminary in washington. shaun, welcome. let me take you back to the atmosphere after 9/11. there was tremendous pressure on the administration to prevent another attack, do whatever is necessary, find out whatever they could on if there would be another attack. doesn't that justify the interrogation techniques that were put into place? >> i would argue that it's precisely those moments of crisis that we need to rely on our moral and legal tradition and resist giving up respect and dignity for the human person. i think moral tradition argues that no matter who that person is the result of dignity is that they should not be subjected to the type of torture that went on. >> abernethy: and even if you're pretty sure you might be able to save several thousand more innocent lives that would not trump the dignity of the individual prisons. >> what's interesting even at the time and we now know for sure that information did not exist. we did not extract through torture any information that directly lead to preventi

all right, thank you casey, and shaun and sue wouldn't believe this, yours truly edges out ross, by faromorrow, debut with mr. ross on the fox 5 news morning news with a field goal kicking contest. and both of these women admitted they voted for loss, but i was expecting a speech. didn't go that way. >> is it two out of three so -- >> reporter: we have five. >> five? dave ross has a shot? >> reporter: yes, he does. >> i think he hacked the system. >> reporter: a lot of votes came in from california, thank you mom. >> two and 49, very clean numbers there. starting to wonder. >> all right, thank you feldman. >>> it was hot out there, oh my gosh's got a workout, a 90- degree day, maybe we don't hit 90 if there are clouds, frontal system heading in our direction, that is not what they want to hear. roddick is playing tomorrow, we'll do our best to hold it off tomorrow. but there will be a round of showers and thunderstorms coming most likely late in the day, front is slow to move in our direction. and the jefferson memorial, not as hazy, perhaps you saw a lot of that moisture left over, als