just from a shawn kennedy quote that he is saying, boldly, i did not believe those lies? how does the minions case stand, as you see it? >> it is one of the strongest defamation lawsuits that first amendment scholars will tell you has ever been compiled against a major media organization. it is an extraordinary case. because, as you laid out perfectly well, fox is an extraordinarily powerful entity. it's a cultural force as well as a political force, as well as a media force. and it is an identity to the people who watch it. and so, to have them potentially on the hook for lying to their audience, which has been fairly well documented, but not yet tried in a court of law, is -- this is so far along, alex, that we have never seen a case get this far against a major media company in a very, very long time. >> and this is -- the fact that rupert murdoch himself is sitting for a deposition is meaningful, it would seem. it seems like there is a case to be made that he was calling the shots here, that he knew these lies were going to be broadcast, and indeed, he wanted them to