let me ask you about khalid khad shake sheikh mohammad. there was a dispute ongoing, i speaks, whether or not he being the only person who was waterboardded a substantial number of times, once or twice, whether or not the waterboard offering him produced information from him that did in fact help lead us to osama bin n laden's courier or to a phone. what's your view on that. >> guest: really nice to have this golden thread and say, ding, ding, ding, that's so obvious. but you have been in the same office i worked in, jim. never works that way. there are threads but they're hundreds, if not thousands of threads and some are good, in a fabric that get you to where you want to be. so, to just hit a couple of data points, it wasn't waterboarding that made him talk. i was sleep deprivation. we did use waterboarding but at the end of the day it was one of the other techniques. now, having said that, there is a difference in how sheikh mohammad before and after the enhanced interrogation techniques. this was totally defiant. this was a zone of mo

now having said that there was a difference in how chic sheikh mohammad there was defiant didn't turn into a boy scout or patriotic democrat but more cooperative over here and, in fact, a large volume of information including information that helped us on the career. now can i do this -- begad that it doesn't work that way. gym, let me give you the way that i explained it again in the book and from the bottom of my heart. all right. i cannot imagine any operation like what happened at the bug taking place, it's not relying on that shoppers through warehouse of information we got from the 100 plus detainees. it was like -- encyclopedia al qaedaist -- and now with the ease of -- once you find them if you point out is have heart disease but find a terrorist to be able to kill him with -- say a hell fire from a drone, along with the pakistani border, that is something that is -- is still doable tech no logically or for us in ways that it hasn't ever been before, and as a result we have killed a lot of people that if we captured them, we might get a good deal of information from them. but

khalid sheikh mohammad's trial has yet to begin. a civil lawsuit by judicial watch against against the state department. this is the one that started it out. judicial watch is the reason we are learning so much about hillary. kennedy: they figured out she had the home brewed server. judge napolitano: correct. today a federal judge said i'm going to order testimony under oath from huma abedin. he said from the bench, pane african-american appoint yeef her husband to the bench, i want to know if these people have avoid and frustrated the slaw wit comes to the public records act. kennedy: he said he might compel those two. we have yet learned the fast it those deleted emails. judge napolitano: if those testimony was in public you could do it at metlife stadium and there would be a line to buy the tickets. kennedy: let's get some box seats. very good. coming up. meet the world's biggest voting fish. it's not fat. and ace in space. clever hoax or dawn of the beginning of planet of the apes. seven. i just wish one of those people could ha