sheila krumholz heads the center for responsive politics, based in washington. that's an organization of investigators tracking money in politics and its impact on elections and public policy. the center and its website, opensecrets.org, are invaluable resources for journalists and anyone who cares about campaign finance and the clout of washington lobbyists. danielle brian runs the project on government oversight, otherwise known as pogo. its mission -- is transparency and accountability throughout the federal government. its weapons -- whistleblowers and a thorough knowledge of the freedom of information act, exposing abuse, demanding answers, and looking for solutions. welcome to you both. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> we just heard gerald markowitz and david rosner describe how the lead industry buys the outcomes it wants in washington. now, the two of you have collectively been at this work of public watchdogs for more than 40 years. what have you learned in all that time about how money works? >> money buys outcomes. it's not that money is given as a quid