we will continue with repressor shiller and howard ward as well -- professor shiller and howard wardoday with kevin brady of house ways and means. worldwide, this is bloomberg. ♪ ♪ tom: "bloomberg surveillance." wonderful day. francine lacqua in london. i am tom in new york. howard ward with us of gabelli funds. and robert shiller. peter navarro will be with us today. i had a spirited conversation with him on trade yesterday. the basic idea if i say to you, professor, president trump in a good society, how do you frame that? he has a huge support across america. robert: it is a little difficult. good society, it was a term popular by robert litman about a century ago, strikes me as a more liberal -- it is not a business society, it is a society where there is more of a community -- i use the term in a book i wrote emphasizing i think finance is often misrepresented as selfish. i see it among my students. tom: is president trump selfish in part of the finance society or is he separate and removed from global wall street? robert: that is a complicated question. tom: you have 45 seconds

. >> no, let's bring in the nobel winning economist robert shiller. >> thank god >> for his thoughts on the markets and what he makes of the yield curve. professor, welcome back, it's nice to see you. >> my pleasure >> here we come to the end of the quarter. we're looking ahead to the next. what do you think is in store for the markets as who have forward? -- as we move forward? >> i'm not very good at forecasting. i like the really long term. that makes me an investor. >> give me the outlook >> i do think about the short term too i like to emphasize narratives what is the narrative right now? obviously it has something to do with the trump regime and what changes there will be. you know, this trump boom has gone on longer than i thought, i have to admit, longer than i thought it would and i tend to think of it as more psychological it has something to do with the role that the -- the model that donald trump has set for the nation it's aggressive business people believe in aggressive business they believe in businesses that trade on their hunches or instinct it's somehow led to a moo

you're very smart to mention keith shiller. i think people underestimate how important his departure is for the president. he's somebody the president really leaned on felt he could trust and rely on. hope hicks in the same category. they saw -- a study by the brookings institution found that 34% turnover in the first year alone. it's already now just two months into the second year. that number will go up. and there are people who, as you say, are -- some of the people who have been around the president longest. the ones he can -- he has known and trusted and put a lot of investment in. people coming in he doesn't know as well and is not as likely to build a comfort level with them for quite a while. so it's a difficult thing not just for the staff, but for the president who is not -- i think increasingly isolated inside his own home and building. >> so julia, take what we have seen happen this week. how does it inform your thinking as you look to next week? what do you believe could be next, and yes, i do try to get you to an

. >> and don't forget it starred with his long-time bodyguard keith shiller who he used to just hang out with in the absence of nobody else around hip. no more. >> my great thanks to our panel for starting us off tonight. and two counterintelligence >> and don't forget it starred with his long-time bodyguard keith shiller who he used to just hang out with in the absence of nobody else around hip. no more. >> my great thanks to our panel for starting us off tonight. and two counterintelligence experts weighing in on the expulsion of russians today. >>> you were 27, he was 60. were you physically attracted to him? >> no. >> not at all? >> no. >> did you want to have sex with him? >> no. but i'm not a victim, i'm not -- >> it was entirely consensual? >> the white house and michael cohen have denied the affair ever happened. she filed an amended lawsuit alleging trump's personal attorney michael cohen defamed her. earlier today daniels attorney, michael avenatti, talked to nicolle wallace about the case. >> we're suing him for telling effectively a lie about my client. and his lie was th

and they got off to a strong start run robert shiller still gianluca welchman shot at lewis holtby showedthe true strikers instinct to convert the rebound in the eighteenth minute. hamburg's joy was short lived though and it told me shot was formal to daniel guinn second who levelled the score shortly before the break. and so it stayed the side share this. but that doesn't help hamburgers they remain rooted at the bottom of the table. well now let's take a look at all the matches so far on match day twenty eight and as you can see there shall be a struggling freiburg six goal thriller against dortmund leverkusen and i was where it ended in a draw of course one over were unlucky against another draw there in berlin. another six goal result there on match day twenty eight against cologne and another draw stood guard against tom we're going to course let's not forget that on sunday we have two games that's braman against frankfurt and strugglers minds against now it's time to take a look at what all that means for the table of course no shock at the top byron still waiting to lift the trophy

michael cohen and keith shiller have both testified in front of the house intel committee.y were both included in the subpoena of communications that mueller asked for earlier this month. do you think that bob mueller and the house intel committee, with democrats on it, are seeking the truth about what you just described? >> i don't think so. i think there is a timing issue that -- at the time that they talked to these people, this was not out in the public realm. and if we're talking, of course, about the republicans are interested in nothing. now, you raise a very interesting question, which is will the special prosecutor come across this because he is now subpoenaing such a wide array of documents. and this is the issue when you have a special prosecutor or an independent prosecutor. that's how we got from white water to paula jones in the clinton administration. once a prosecutor is in there with the subpoena power, he is going to pickup a lot of stuff. and if along the way he finds that there is evidence of a threat or there is evidence of blackmail, you can be sure he

shiller? >> it was not him individually. >> but you haven't ruled out an associate of mr. cohen and mr. shiller? >> correct. quite frankly, it could have only come with someone associated with mr. cohen and mr. trump because of the circumstances of that. mr. trump was not running for president in 2011. there was only a handful of people that knew that this story was about to break in the magazine and of course mr. cohen took steps to kill the story. the magazine has confirmed that. the only three groups that this hoodlum could have come from, my client didn't send somebody to terrorize herself. why would the magazine do that? doesn't ma i can any sense. mr. cohen and mr. trump and their camp. common sense tells us that's where it had to come from. >> let me go back to the defamation case. what is your proof to prove your client isn't lying about a sexual relationship with the president? >> we have my client's testimony and other documentary evidence we are going to bring to light -- you're going to ask what documents or evidence -- >> you tweeted a picture of a cd. we went

>> we hear about the departure of shiller and hope hicks as if they were the beginning of the chaos, but they started to leave when they had to lawyer up, when they had in hope hicks' case to testify. i think that the fact that ivanka is under investigation, that jared is under investigation, makes him very nervous, because who's he going to confide him? i would leave him, too, if any time you got close to him the toxicity bled to you and you would have to spend all your time on lawyers and running. >> last to you, we talk about schisms in this administration. certainly, there was one over this issue of trade. peter navarro, wilbur ross on one side, is that schism over now in light of what the president announced last week? what role is gary cohn playing as an influencer of the president in this white house? >> as of this hour gary cohn is still top economic adviser -- >> wasn't on tv this morning, was he? >> he was not, that was peter navarro, which was quite interesting to watch. look, this decision is not completely final. what i mean by that is, there's not any actual policy on p

steve bannon, michael cohen, rick gates, hope hicks, corey lewandowski, carter page, keith shiller and roger stone. what do you make, michael schmidt, of this line of questioning and something you and i talk about all the time about the two tracks of the mueller probe, the collusion investigation, the obstruction investigation. clearly there's more attention being paid to what director brennan testified to last spring, the witting or unwitting cooperation between russia and some members of the trump campaign. >> i mean in some ways the subpoena makes sense. these are all folks that are in this orbit and mueller wants to gather everything. and he knows that if there is one stone that he doesn't turnover, that if he ever closes up shop and anything else comes out, then he's going to get criticized. so he has to look at everything and he has to cast his net far and wind. the thing about the number thing that just always reminds me is that we have so little insight into mueller. we have so little understanding. all of a sudden a few weeks ago he pops the indictment against 13 russians no o

on tuesday, the case-shiller home price index for january will be released the final read of the fourth-quartern wednesday then on thursday, it's personal income and outlays for the month of february that come out. those numbers will give us a look at how the consumer is faring also, a market milestone anniversary. back on this day in 1999, the dow closed above 10,000 for the first time ever. and for some, it's a short workweek the markets will be closed to observe good friday. >>> well, guess what, friday marked national puppy day. it's a day to celebrate our furry friends but also to encourage dog adoption if you are planning to add a dog to your family, what's the right breed for you, and how much will it cost? joining us right now is pet expert and dog trainer andrea arden. we also have with us zane and zara from the aspca. andrea, thanks so much for being here. >> thanks for having us. >> mostly, thanks for bringing the puppies. they are adorable! any reason to have them on here. these are the cutest puppies, and as soon as you see them, you think you want to bring it home. there are proba

. >> and don't forget it starred with his long-time bodyguard keith shiller who he used to just hang out with in the absence of nobody else around hip. no more. >> my great thanks to our panel for starting us off tonight. and two counterintelligence experts weighing in on the expulsion of russians today. thou hast the patchy beard of a pre-pubescent squire! thy armor was forged by a feeble-fingered peasant woman... your mom! as long as hecklers love to heckle, you can count on geico saving folks money. boring! fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. looking for a hotel that fits... whoooo. ...your budget? tripadvisor now searches over... ...200 sites to find you the... ...hotel you want at the lowest price. grazi, gino! find a price that fits. tripadvisor. no one burns heon my watch! try alka seltzer... ultra strength heartburn relief chews. with more acid-fighting power than tums chewy bites. mmmmm...amazing. i have heartburn. heartburn relief from alka-seltzer. enjoy the relief. >>> if the saw the picture "the beautiful mind," then steve kornacki wi

for everything they ever wrote to or received from aides like corey lewandowski, hope hicks, keith shiller, the longtime bodyguard, and the president himself. mueller is zeroing in on a businessman, george nader, alleged to have possibly have insight into an effort or a desire by the united arab emirates to try and funnel money to the trump campaign in exchange for favors. jon? >> a lot to keep track of. peter ducey in washington, thank you. >> president trump's controversial tariff plan is not just ruffling feathers abroad, but republican leaders worry it could hurt them in november. concerns that white house national trade council director peter that radar row is dismissing. >> in terms of the republican party, donald trump ran against 16 republicans. none of those republicans supported donald trump's positions on trade. he beat every one of them. then donald trump went on with a democratic opponent who didn't support his positions on trade and beat them too. >> let's turn to our panel. lawrence, i don't want to lose sight of the fact that there's a special election coming up in pennsylv

. >> and don't forget it starred with his long-time bodyguard keith shiller who he used to just hang out with in the absence of nobody else around hip. no more. >> my great thanks to our panel for starting us off tonight. and two counterintelligence experts weighing in on the expulsion of russians today. >>> you were 27 and he was 60. were you physically attracted to him? >> no. >> not at all? >> no. >> did you want to have sex with him? >> no. but i'm not a victim. i didn't say no. >> it was consensual? >> yes, yes. >> part of stormy daniels's 60 minutes interview where she detailed her affair in 06. they denied the affair ever happened and since the interview, daniels ramped up her legal battle against the president and filed an amended lawsuit alleging michael cohen defamed her and campaign finance law was violated by brokering the hush agreement before the 2016 election. earlier today, daniels's attorney talked to nicole wallace about the case. >> we are suing him for telling a lie about my client that the affair did not happen. we are going to prove that it did happen and his de

other than keith shiller, his bodyguard who was with him the entire length of his campaign, there is the lowest people to him. >> that's right. hope hicks, the early months of 2015, she was on board. today she got a gracious exit from the white house. the footage there of the handshake and kiss on the cheek. the president brought her out in full view of reporters to have that good-bye. hope hicks usually shies away from the press, the publicity but she got a moment in the sun here. he got a far better exit than shulkin or kelly. and there may be more departures coming. the president can change his mind at any time but there is a sense around the building that shulkin, you know, had the president's attention in recent days for the ethics scandal. now at that that's over, trump. >> -- who likes to deal with one thing at a time may turn his attention to carson, zinke or pruitt. >> jackie, i'm cuio curious as what you're hearing. it's interesting a departure or two creates more ancillary anxiety back home in washington, especially now that the boss is in that environment, the friendly co

look at valuations across a whole bunch of different kinds of indicia, either equity valuations, the shiller p/e's, market caps of the market compared to gp, you're at levels we haven't seen since 1999, 2008, there's warning signs out there. then you see bitcoin pricing the way it is, paintings going for 500 million dollars, all the other nonfinancial conditions. >> asset inflation >> asset inflation you look at these things and you say, this is clearly not a sustainable set of conditions and you have to be concerned about that that's been reflected in -- one of the flexes of threflections e years has been low volatility, people have thought this is a go goldilocks environment there's no company better positioned to take advantage of what's likely to come in the markets as a result of all the things we talked about >> if i said, okay, are valuations really out of whack when you say earnings expectations are going up, the numbers are going up as a result of the tax law, and given where interest rates are >> interest rates are the other issue. i didn't say they were out of whack. i said they'r

keith shiller, of course, chef security for donald trump in new york, very easy relationship. navy veteran, former new york police officer. hope hicks was with this campaign from its embryonic first hours. they're both out of the president's life now. and again, because that immediate atmosphere around him looms so large and seems so important, it's those two vacancies i think about a lot. >> you're right to think about them that way. they were really the souvenirs from the campaign. the tchoskies who sat outside the oval office to remind trump this used to be fun, winning the campaign was fun. dispatching the republican rivals, dispatching hillary clinton. he had a lot of fun doing that and they could remind him of that, was it mascots to him. they were useful to white house staff, that the president really wouldn't listen to everyone, but if they could have hope hicks say something in a meeting, the president would pay attention. if there was inclination the president was going perhaps off the rails, they could maybe have keith perhaps suggest it nimbly, gently, and the pres

. >> carter page, president trump, keith shiller, michael cohen, roger stone, steve bannon. >> this is now looking for those other pieces that are going to fill in and could potentially trap some people who have already spoken to mr. mueller. >> it's an indication mueller's team may be zeroing in on what the president knew and when he knew it. >> if anybody attempted to influence our u.s. election system by coordinating or cooperating with an outside source to materially change the outcome of this election, those people should be in jail for the rest of their lives. >> president trump is not only praising china but hinting he wants the u.s. to follow suit. he's now president for life. president for life. no. he's great. look. he was able to do that. i think it's great. maybe we'll have to give that a shot some day. >> the room reportedly responded with applause and laughter to the statement made by a sitting president. >> if they think that donald trump is joking, they're fools. >> last week was stunning thing after stun thing. that was one of the most stunning things. >> that was one

that neither donald trump junior nor his sister ivanka trump nor long-time trump body guard keith shiller have been interviewed. you might imagine all three people would be on deck for him and his team but none have been interviewed yet. so the only investigation in the hols g house got killed. the mueller investigation is blacker box but at least they pop into the light and indict a bunch of people. you know, if we, the american people are going to get a clear view what happened to us as a country, what happened to us in the 2016 election and who done it exactly, well, you know how we've gotten most of the information we had thus far. most of the information we had thus far as american citizens has been from the other investigation, the investigation that runs parallel alongside what's been done by the house and senate and robert mueller. where we've learned the most is from the investigation that never stops from the one that can't be shut down by republicans from the investigation that can't be fired. it's the one that taught us almost everything we know thus far about this scandal. it

hope hicks is now gone, keith shiller, his personal bodyguard, is no longer there. they were the ones that he would speak to in private. he would confide in. they were his friends and his family within the white house. if you look at who's left from the beginning of the campaign, the very beginning of the campaign, the only person that's not ivanka or jared is dan scavino, his social media manager. we have reporting the special counsel is asking about him. other than that it's stephen miller, kellyanne conway, everybody else has left. >> will they recruit for this job? there was some speculation on nicole wallace's show they wouldn't fill this job. >> i think they will fill this job, if for nothing else they know these personnel dramas, the personalities of this administration, that's a big part of the show, that is something that obscures a lot of other things. we're starting off tonight's broadcast talking about this and not the other insane things that happened today. and the bombshell news reports that i know you're going to get to. so i think the personnel dram

the lift includes president trump, hope hicks, carter page, corey lewandowski, keith shiller, steve bannon, roger stone and rick gays. >>> and president trump's son-in-law and senior adviserer, jared kushner, remains under the shadow of robert mueller's russia probe. it was errored on friday mueller's team has been asking witnesses about kushner's efforts to secure financing for his family's real estate properties. president trump has been asking people close to him whether they think kushner or his company has done anything wrong. that's according to a senior administration official. two advisers tell the paper that the president repeatedly tells aides that the russia investigation will not ensnare him even as it ensnares others around him and the that he thinks the american people are finally starting to conclude that the democrats opposed to his campaign colluded with the russians. unnamed white house aides say president trump has both jared kushner and wife ivanka that they should keep serving in their roles, even as he has privately asked chief of staff john kelly for his help in movi

who he confides in now that keith shiller and her are gone. let's talk about jared kushner. the first son-in-law. this new reporting suggests that two people whom he met with at the white house then provided major loans to the kushner companies. jared has stepped away from the compa company, but we are talking about $184 million for one. apollo global management and one more $325 million from citigroup. this is why white house visitor logs should be public. how does jared kushner survive all of this given his clearance has been downgraded? >> kushner's clearly under fire in this white house. you know, at the end of the day, president trump surrounds himself with people he trusts. he has gone already to great lengths to keep those people even when his advisers recommend he doesn't. you know, there is always a chance he just powers through and continues. keep in mind, ethics officials have said from the beginning, ethics laws are not just about preventing impropriety, but the appearance of impropriety or the appearance someone could be bought or influenced. that is the concern

plus yale's robert shiller is with us.nd pete najarian going to the cloud for his unusual activity today. i'll have the reveal at the top of the hour. see you in about ten >> scott, thanks for that. >>> let's get over to the cme group, rick santelli, and get the santelli exchange. hey, rick. >> good morning, carl. the following chart is a year to date chart of the dow jones industrial average overlaid with ten-year note rates. what's driving rates prior to some of the corrections we've experienced since january in the equity markets, it certainly seemed to be that higher rates, better economic fundamentals and a driving equity marketer were all in sync people complain, my god, are interest rates moving higher, going to kill it but the movement in unison is a good thing what i find fascinating on that chart is right at the end of january, early february, there was a correlation adjustment even though stock markets of course are still at very lofty levels when you think of the distance covered in the last several years, it's

keeps shiller, leaving, hope or getting pound the in the press. jared. that pounding, more brutal headlines for kushner. "the new york times" reporting, quote, kushner's family business received loans at the white house meetings. this blurring of lines is now a potential liability for there kushner who recently lost his top secret security clearance amid worries from some u.s. officials that foreign governments might try to gain influence with the white house by doing business with mr. kushner. the bigger problem

keith shiller, his former bodyguard for example.nd now the staff in the white house are more of the professional staff who were new in this government who didn't have a pre-existing relationship with donald trump. >> the og guys right from the very beginning. >> so he is isolated. the president is in a moment of extreme crisis right now and he doesn't have as many close people around him. >> and one of the things that is so striking to me about hope hicks is the extent to which she has floated above the fray in a trump orbit that has had back stabbing and leaks. she had a proximity to the president. she had his trust. she is not someone who craved the spotlight. she wasn't really on tv selling the white house's message. but she did have a very important role internally and that will be hard to replace. >> a pleasure to have you both on this show. i appreciate it. after the break, president trump as you know has been shocking republicans and democrats with his latest positions on gun reform. that televised meeting rounding out a pret

rob porter leaving, johnny mcentee, the body man, shiller long time body guard for the president.left in the past year. it really changes the people who are around the president of the united states minute by minute, hour by hour. >> robert costa, let me read you something from new york magazine today. inside the cut throat battle to be the next hope hicks. the race to fill hicks' voitd is a clandestine parade of all the worst human impulses. she will leave behind a press operation that is inherently broken, rife with scandal and petty divisions that have only worsened amid the cyclical staff sheddings that have defined the first 14 months of donald trump's administration. it's some beautiful writing and some exquisite reporting on not just the vacuum, but on how vicious the candidates are to replace her to one another. >> it is vicious on one level about people jockeying for the job inside of the white house from different administrative posts. but the real story about the com's position that's open based on my report thing afternoon is it's kellyanne conway's if she wants the jo

keeps shiller, leaving, hope or getting pound the in the press. jared. and about that pounding, more brutal headlines for kushner. "the new york times" reporting, quote, kushner's family business received loans at the white house meetings. this blurring of lines is now a potential liability for there kushner who recently lost his top secret security clearance amid worries from some u.s. officials that foreign governments might try to gain influence with the white house by doing business with mr. kushner. the bigger problem for kushner may be the fact that mueller's investigators are asking questions about mr. kushner's interactions with potential investors from overseas. kushner's internal foe chief of staff john kelly displayed some humor today in the homeland security department. >> i would just open by saying i have almost no right to be up here on this stage. i was in the department -- >> you have every right. >> i missed every one of you every day. i went -- [ laughter ] [ applause ] >> truly, six months, the last thing i wanted to do was walk away

this but they're reporting that muller is looking for any and all, including long time guard keith shiller, carter page, and the president himself. sandra. >> peter, thank you. >> analysis, monday morning. good day to you. thanks for being here. >> good morning. >> so they say the justice department cannot investigate itself. where does this go? the intelligence committee memo that came out a few weeks ago that showed the justice department and the fbi did use the dossier to get a warrant to spy on carter page and you know there's a conflict, an argument between the republicans on that committee and the democrats. the democrats say well they only used it a little bit, and the republicans said well they useted a lot, but basically the fact that they used it is a very big deal for these republicans and they say they need to find out how that happened. >> watch here -- listen, rather. >> i welcome anybody to help come investigate because so far it's only the house intelligence committee republicans who are actually doing anything to get to the bottom of who was colludding with russia. we have

so now that hope hicks is gone, now that he lost his long-time bodyguard keith shiller there's a question looming over the white house, which is who is going to save the president from himself. hope hicks was the one at times who crafted his tweets, at times stopped him from sending tweets that she thought would be damaging to him and his reputati reputation. now that he's becoming unglued according to this reporting, is there anybody who will put the brakes on him and make sure that he's not doing things that are completely and totally impulsive? >> politico described donald trump as the loneliest man in washington. he has few advisers, few friends, few people he respects enough to listen to. he's feuding with john kelly, his chief of staff, because kelly says things that displease him. he doesn't like h.r. mcmaster. cohn, who stayed through the charlottesville neo-nazi cuddling now feels a trade war is a bridge too far. what's going on? how would they replace these people? are there republicans out there who would be willing to take a job in the white house right now? >> i think there's

something to the bed, and there's also a brief meeting with miss universe executives, and then keith shiller tells congressional investigators that a russian approached trump's guards with an offer that he wanted to send five women to trump's hotel room that night. >> i think keith kchiller who handled e-mails from her about things happening in hollywood when they're in vegas. it's not a new phenomenon that keith schiller would be acting as the president's matchmakerment. >> is there anyone in the trump or bbit who would lie for him a go to prison? >> i think so, if they would receive a pardon or remuneration after the fact. >> 130,00$130,000s. >> people have had their reputations destroyed store sticking up for donald trump. >>> coming up, donald trump thinks that he can dictate terms to robert mueller. we will discuss next. that's my girl! that's it! get it, woo, yeah! mom! my game's over. parents aren't perfect, but then they make us kraft mac & cheese and everything's good again. . >>> okay. remember when donald trump created a commission to investigate voter fraud? well, he disbanded th

that's what we're going to ask robert shiller, yale university professor of economics we have talkedabout markets. we have talk eed to you about rl estate today, we'll talk to you about trade and tariffs. what is the effect of tariffs on the end user of goods, the american consumer? >> well, depends on whether the end user is a steel worker or not. for most people, this goes all the way back to 1776, adam smith. it hurts most people because the production isn't where it's most efficient. you put distortions in trade, and it lowers -- it also has an immediate disruption effect. but it helps some people notably, people who own stock in steel companies, and maybe steel workers as well. >> the distortion comes about, and because -- by what mechanism? explain it to me >> it goes back to adam smith, as you talked about importing lime from portugal he put a big tariff on, and they said we can't afford that anymore. we'll try to make it in england. doesn't work very well the climate is wrong that's the kind of thing that tariffs do it makes production inefficient and you're drinking lousy wi

. >> 9:00 eastern watch for this, the january case-shiller report expected to show 6.1% year over yeare. an hour later we're going to get the march consumer confidence figures from the conference board expected to show a slight increase over a month ago. >>> and a few stocks on the move this morning red hat reporting better than expected fourth quarter profit and sales on strong subscription revenue. software maker is also raising its outlook for the year red hat's ceo jim whitehurst will be joining us >>> the u.s. federal trade commission saying it has opened an investigation into facebook's privacy practices. separately a coalition of 37 state attorneys general are demanding answers. shares of facebook fell by more than 6% after that news before recovering to close fractionally higher stock was up slightly. remember on a day that the market was up by 3%. >>> let's get you caught up on the markets at this hour as the dow logged its third largest point gain in history. joining us is karen cavanaugh, she is senior market strategist at boya investment and david bonson is joining us we ha

if you look at the shiller p.e., and then you look at 10 year forward stock returns from the level we right now, we are at the upper end, we're at the fourth or fifth quartile. when you look going forward, we have much lower projected equity prices based on historicals. this goes back to 1871, the numbers i was looking at the other day. i think investors would be wise to start thinking about how to build portfolios with lower stock prices in mind and factoring in the fact that over the next couple years we're going to eventually have a bear market cycle. >> maria: is that what you're seeing? where's the flow right now? >> our flows interestingly enough have actually spiked during this volatility. i think i would attribute that primarily to the fact we have trend following strategies at pacer which uses the 200 day moving average which your guest earlier was talking about. it's been a reliable indicator. what we do is we own the index like the s&p 500 or the nasdaq 100. when it familiar familiar fallst to t-bills. the idea is to get out of the way of falling prices. i just got back --

and keith shiller, i don't think, would go to jail for donald trump.p is a billionaire. he's going to be a billionaire after this is all over. and it's all of these people that have worked for him that are now -- >> he will throw away. >> -- facing jail time and facing massive legal debt. >> what is it leading to? let's say sam nunberg has something to say that would be bad for roger stone. what does that get us? if roger stone ends up getting prosecuted, that's one thing. that is fine. in the end, it is about what did the president know and when did he know it? >> what nunberg said, the one thing he brought up yesterday that was fascinating about that russian meeting, he said, with wait a minute, ten days before the meeting in don junior's office where don junior and manafort and everybody was around, donald trump walg ws teg the world, we've got some really bad information coming out about hillary clinton. you can't wait. >> and when he was asked about that later, he said he was talking about a book. that book came out a year earlier. >> and then you