. >> the very first education secretary was shirley hostetler, a judge in ninth sector -- ninth as a appeals appointed by jimmy carter. >> the point is education secretary -- >> he was one of them. >> but the one who really put -- >> let me questioned the proposition you are making, too, when you talk about government -- what government? the conservatives would argue of course we need a government. we can be an anarchy cut -- notwithstanding the view of the tea party years. the question, which government knows best -- it depends on the issue. a huge discussion about health care. how to be administered? many people, you are one of them, believe insurance companies to continue to be regulated at the state level. the problem has been insurance companies are able to meet -- take advantage of the patchwork of state government regulators, some that are more strong than others and are oftentimes able to come as a result, provide substandard health care protection. >> an unintended consequence has been -- the stripping of insurance companies using different states, particularly southern comp