shirley sherrod.-sighted decision to pick the guy that fired shirley sherrod on the ticket of the woman embracing the first black president. >> african-american, usda -- >> she made a speech at the naacp, breitbart.com misinterpreted her speech, editted portions of it and tried to characterize her as a reverse racist. she was fired on her way to work. t tom vilsack took responsibility for it. that is all you will hear about in african-american communities. shirley sherrod. >> ended tom vilsack's chances. >> i'm rooting for anyone but the admiral. his reputation is so extraordinary, his experience so broad, his diplomatic skills so honed that i think we would be in a deep, deep hole if she did go outside of the box and went to the admiral. >> you know, tom, tim kaine is the front-runner. nothing about the pence pick puts -- i don't think the pence pick puts pressure on hillary clinton to suddenly feel like she's got to change strategies here, right? >> no. i think it did give her a chance to lay back a

and we talked about this on "meet the press" which will air later on today and i think shirley sherroduality that would make him toward somebody you would go toward. >> i wouldn't say redeeming but i don't see what he brings necessarily in terms of having a vp pick. but people vote for the person running for president. so he has skilled. all of the people have some set of skills but i believe the secretary needs somebody that complements here in -- any presidential candidate needs somebody, from a swing state, do they bring millennials in and that is a place where they are deficient when it comes to bringing in the millennials. >> i'm not hearing much in the last couple of days about tom perez but i think he is an interesting choice on the civil rights front. >> yes, absolutely. >> he came after joe arpaio and he gets people involved on the civil rights front and labor. he is tpp because he was in the administration and wasn't able to walk away from it but he is progressive on income inequality and i've seen him out on the stump for her. >> what happened to castro? >> i think he is too