they went, they fell very shorply shorp ly in early 2008 and they stayed there pretty much.hat's huge, of course. second thing is there is great uncertainty out there. there's great uncertainty about what's going to happen and not only with the economy, but here in washington. and then, thirdly, there's major point that no one seems to talk about and that is kind of a real estate overhang. many small businesses own considerable amounts of real estate and, of course, the value of that has been depressed. and, so, what's happened is that has really drug their balance sheets down. >> kelly, you're in the trenches and talked about people with small businesses and what do you see? i see a glimmer of white on the horizon. i wouldn't call it optimism yet but i think some confidence is starting to emerge and i'm hearing from vendors that come in and speak to me about colleagues in the business and our business has picked up a little bit. we're actually hiring an employee back from layoff. >> what is this going to take? as much a psychological things as anything else. you might have