shulman testified in march of 2012 there was no targeting. >> that is demonstrably untrue.e has to come up there and explain. >> sean: more questions than answers. why do you think benghazi is not as big an issue? i have more questions on that as well. >> if you are looking at this from the scope of this, the ultimate importance for the nation, benghazi is far more important. the first assassination of an ambassador in three decades. we have only had six in our entire history. the questions of the underlying derelictions of duty, the neglect of the warnings. the lack of security. and what happened during the attack the abandonment of americans in trouble. that is the most serious issue. i think the reason it doesn't have that much salience it is a complicated issue and the press has shown no interest in this until it is forced into it. i think just in terms of its effect it may not be as important political effect but in terms of the importance to the nation it should be he number one. >> sean: don't you want to know why president obama went to sleep and didn't ask for upda

again, we call upon president obama to clarify the situation make shulman testify. how long were you the irs chief? >> >> bill, just over four years from may -- started may of '03 until the may of '07. >> how many times did you go to the white house? >> you know, i don't have a precise number. my wife at the time i was married she actually worked on al gonzalez wants staff. >> bill: i mean, official irs business? how many times? >> oh, i testified last year before issa's committee i only went over there to my recollection once on a policy matter. interagency policy matter if you will. that was to talk about immigration reform. to get to this question, can i say one thing just to start off? >> bill: yeah. >> how sadly disturbed i am by all of what has come out. because in my -- >> bill: let's stay to the factual realm because you, better than anyone, know what the job is. all right, so you went over there once to talk about some immigration thing. did you talk on the phone with president bush or his top lieutenants about irs policy? >> not about irs policy. and i nev

former irs commissioner douglas shulman testified and it was revealed for the first time his agency targeted tax exempt status. while that was going on, white house spokesman jay carney revealed the white house and the irs had previously discussed how they were going to frame their story to the public. >> you're saying there were some preliminary discussions with the white house about the irs issuing an apology through a lois lerner speech. >> there were discussions between the treasury chief of staff's office and the office of general counsel and the white house counsels office and chief of staff's office about the timing of this information release and the findings themselves. >> so now we know the white house was not only aware of the scandal a month ago but that they seriously considered a preemptive response. as for the president, the white house continues to not only claim that they sat around and included how to message this without telling the president and the president just read about it. are you buying what carney is trying to sell? >> this -- this administration is as transparent

today, former irs chief doug shulman testified before the senate but predictably he doesn't know anything about targeting conservatives. >> how did this happen? >> mr. chairman, i can't say -- i can't say that i know that answer. i have now had the benefit of reading the report. and that's, you know, the full accounting of facts that i have at this point and so i -- i don't think can i answer that question. >> i don't know. nobody, nobody can answer any questions. do you sense a pattern here? if you are a fair minded person, the obama administration is becoming a frustrating experience, is it not just tell us what happened, mr. president. stop dancing around. we don't need a replay of watergate. >> this is not watergate but there are some people in the administration who have acted as if they want to be nixonian. and that's a very big problem. >> bill: yes, it's big problem. mr. president let's go bulworth tell us the truth. that's the memo. now interesting information on the irs story. as you know president obama said he learned about the scandal on may 10th. white house council kathryn

. >> reporter: in 2012, then-irs commissioner douglas shulman testified his agency was not targeting conservative groups. he later received word the inspector general was conducting an investigation and did not inform lawmakers. on capitol hill, danielle notingham, wjz eyewitness news. >> now, the committee chair said he may call lois lerner back in front of the committee, saying she waived her fifth amendment right by giving an opening statement. >> reporter: jurors in the jodi arias murder trial tell the judge they can't reach a verdict in her murder sentencing. arias had been convicted in the murder of her ex-boyfriend, who she claims was abusive. the jury must decide whether arias should respond life in prison. arias addressed the jury in the penalty phase, asking them to spare her life. >>> police are investigating a shooting in baltimore county that sent one man to the hospital. it happened in the 7500 block of sparrows point road in edgemere. officers responding to the area found one man shot. he is now hospitalized in stable condition. police say the victim was fighting with

dug shulman testified before two committees when he pointedly was asked was his agency targeting teatying, and pro israel and jewish groups and targeting pro life groups and he adamantly denied it not once but twice. it happened a year after lois learner and other managers, including their chief counsel at the irs, had several different meetings will where they discussed their agency was pointedly targeting tea partyers and pro life groups and pro israel groups so they were aware of it. the question becomes why did they ignore it? maybe it's because they wanted to wait for the story to come out after the election. >> i think that's probably a good point. leslie marshall, we know representative dave camp of the house, ways and means committee, he's saying that doug shulman and others lied before congress. we are going to begin some hearings tomorrow with his successor. what are your thoughts as a liberal? >> well, first of all, doug shulman was not a liberal. george w. bush appointed him. we've seen hue heads roll, the number one and number two at the irs currently difficult, i think

shulman testifies, the head of the commissioner, he testifies in the summer of 2012, we didn't do it. finally lerner testifies last week we did. if all these circulars were put out, you're telling me that the top people in the agency didn't know something about this? i find that incredible. >> is that what you're saying -- >> you're a former federal prosecutor. what would it take for this to become criminal? you said there could be criminality here. what's the smoking gun? >> the crimes that would have to be investigated here are tax felonies. it is a felony in the post-nixon era for people to sick the irs on their political opponents. you simply can't do that. and if -- and i want to underline the word "if" because i don't know the facts. if it turns out somebody on the political end of things was sicking the irs on groups who were conservative or tea party or patriot groups, that is exactly what we cannot have in our society. that leads to venezuela. >> how will we ever know, though? >> they're going to have big hearings. you're going to get -- first of all, don't forget, the irs is

shulman testified before congress march 12th, i believe, of 2012, when he was asked about this very issue>> yes. >> sean: he said absolutely it is not this. but we now know that they knew six months before this election that in fact this had occurred, and he never went back to the committee, he never revised, extended his remarks? >> never corrected his remarks. he used this language -- he said, i can assure you that nothing is going, politically focused going on, targeting conservative groups. he used the words "i can assure you." that's strong language. then when he finds out it was, doesn't correct the record, that's a problem. he had a lot of questioning about that issue. >> sean: there was an issue, airman issa, a bipartisan letter signed by chairman david camp, and sandra levin of the ways and means committee, and they requested from the white house that documents and information be sent over to them by yesterday. they've apparently decided they're not going to send it over, at least not in a timely fashion. how troublesome is that to you? do you think this is part of a delay tactic

. >> reporter: in 2012, then-irs commissioner douglas shulman, testified his agency was not targeting conservative groups. he later received word the inspector general was conducting an investigation and did not inform lawmakers. on capitol hill, danielle nottingham, wjz eyewitness news. >> the committee chair says he may call lois lerner back in front of the committee, saying she waved her fifth amendment right by giving an opening statement. >>> former new york congressman anthony weiner is throwing his back into politics. he was announcing his campaign for the mayor of new york. wiener's political career came crashing down two years ago, when he tweeted a picture of his crotch to several women. a new poll puts wiener in second place for the democratic nomination. >>> turning now to our weather in this area, where it's been a warm one out there. if you can stand the near 90- degree heat. it was a nice day to walk or take a bike ride. still, many people in the druid hill park, kept their water handy just in case. take a live look now. sun is shining. and temperatures are not cooling

explain if we will see shulman testifying next week and if lois lerner will be showing up on capitol hill, as well? >> lerner is an interesting name to bring up because democrats specifically mr. crowley were calling for her head today saying she is to blame for a lot of the problems that went forward. as for mr. shulman that remains to be seen. what will be interesting is there is now a real sort of concentration from members in both parties when you pull away the political a little bit here that this is systemic of an institutional crisis going on at the irs. i suspect from conversations with aides that once the initial hearing which is to some degree has a little political under tones we would expect of an issue this big and this important to the conservative base they are going to go to the idea of this is a very important nonpartisan organization operating without clear leadership. what does that mean with the development of so many types of legislation including the health care law which is dependent on the irs. that is when the names you brought up i think will really go edown

former irs commissioner shulman testified in front of us in march of 2012 and said that, in quotes, no targeting, end of quotes, was going on. two months later, he was briefed on the ig's investigation and was fully informed that indeed singling out by name had occurred on his watch. he had an obligation to return to this committee and set the record straight. so did mr. miller. neither fulfilled their obligations. a little more than a week ago lois lerner was in front of our oversight subcommittee. she serves as the director of the exempt organization division and she has been directly involved in this matter, yet she failed to disclose what she knew to this committee. choosing to do so in an aba conference two days later. this is wholly unacceptable and one of the reasons that we believe, and as i stated several days ago, miss le are. ner should be relieved of her duties. chairman camp and i put together this hearing on a bipartisan basis to get the facts. we must seek the truth, not political gain. and i just i just want to add in that regard. mr. p said listening to the nightly new

looking into the targeting of conservative groups featured former irs commissioner douglas shulman testifying with the inspector general who issued the report and steven miller, the outgoing acting commissioner. miller was briefed may 3rd, 2012 on the extra scrutiny conservative organizations were facing but didn't reveal it in letters to lawmakers. that hit a nerve. >> why didn't you tell us? >> mr. hatch, i did not lie. >> you what? >> i did not lie, sir. >> you lied by omission. you knew what was going on. >> reporter: early on the chairman said he knew what was going on. >> it's not only inappropriate, it's intolerable to target groups based on their political views. we need to understand how and why this targeting occurred. we need to know who was involved and who was responsible. >> reporter: shulman was asked about targeting at a hearing in march 2012. >> there's absolutely no targeting. this is the kind of back and forth that happens when people apply for 501c4 status. >> reporter: when asked today, shulman said back then he only had a partial set of facts. later texas republican john

were searching applications especially for tea party style names and groups for a year before shulman testified to congress. on sunday, republicans, naturally, were outraged. >> it is absolutely chilling that the irs was singling out conservative groups for extra review. and i think that it's very disappointing that the president hasn't personally condemned this and spoken out. >> i don't care if you're a conservative, a liberal this should send a chill up your spine. >> the administration's day one handling of the story has been poor. the democratic party's handling of it has been borderline abysmal and the irs has been abysmal the white house has pushed the idea that it was led by rogue agents. an expressed regret. >> the irs, as you know, an independent enforcement agency with only two political appointees. we certainly find the actions taken has reported to be inappropriate and we would fully expect the investigation to be thorough. >> the rogue agents is difficult to make given this was the fie office assigned to deal with this project, which is an issue in the lack of universal outrage fu

former irs commissioner shulman did testify refusing to apologize for the agency's actions during anpitol hill. >> i am -- i am deeply, deeply saddened by this whole set of events. i read the ig's report and am very much regret that it happened and happened on my watch. >> is that an apology? >> i don't know the details of your constituents. i don't know what happened to them. >> so it's not your responsibility? >> i -- >> the buck doesn't stop with you? >> i certainly am not personally responsible for creating a list that had inappropriate criteria on it. >> nearly two years after posting inappropriate pictures of himself on the internet, disgraced former congressman anthony weiner officially looking to make a political comeback. late last night a two-minute campaign ad appeared on his website reintroducing the democrat to new york city voters as he declared his candidacy for mayor. >> i made some big mistakes and i know i let a lot of people down. but i've also learned some tough lessons. i'm rung for mayor because i've been running for the middle class and those struggling for my

that's inexcusable. >> reporter: shulman went to the white house 118 times, but testified he never discussed irs targeting. shulman left irs last year. tonight, this is the first day irs has a new acting commissioner, danny wurfel who's been given the job of repairing the image of irs. >>> family and friends are demanding answers today after a man was killed in alexandria early this morning. it was some kind of dispute between the victim and an off-duty arlington county sheriff's deputy. so far no charges have been filed. today, our pat collins learned that the victim worked for pbs and has a relative in the nba. >> reporter: an incredible scene out here. these are all friends and family members, people close to julian dawkins. he was very well liked in this lynhaven section of alexandria, and tonight julian dawkins is dead. shot and killed by an off-duty sheriff's deputy. why was an arlington county sheriff's deputy in alexandria last night? what was going on in that park down the street? what kind of confrontation led to this? and why is julian dawkins dead? there are a lot of questions he

shulman about the practices. when you testifiedyou said, there was absolutely no targeting, unquote. to this day, you have not corrected your testimony, even though you know that the irs was inappropriately screening tea o now, mr. shulman, why had you not come forward before today to correct the record and acknowledge that there was in fact inappropriate screening occurring in the irs, the organization that you headed? >> let me -- let me answer a few things, one is the full set of facts around these circumstances came out last week in the tigta report which i read. until that point i did not have a full set of facts about-- >> yeah, but you knew this was going on, why didn't you let us know when we -- that's what we were inquiring about when we sent these letters to you? >> what i knew was not the full set of facts in this report. what i knew sometime in the spring of 2012 was that there was a list that's being used, knew that the word tea party was on the list, didn't know what other words were on the list, didn't know the scope

now march was key because that's when the acting commissioner of the irs, doug shulman testified to congressing on. you have the letters from lois lerner. we went back in the client files. we realized what she had done put a cover letter on the invasive questionnaires we had filed responses to saying hey, some of these questions are not getting answers. here's why. she resent them. gregg: in other words you have proof she didn't put a stop to it as she told congress, right? >> it is exact opposite. one we published online and fox news published as well. questions about the facebook page, upcoming speakers, member bios. gregg: we're out of time. keep us posted on the lawsuit you will be filing this week. love it if you could send us a copy so we could look at it ourselves. >> absolutely. >> jordan sekulow, center of american law and justice. >> thanks, gregg. heather: amazing stories of courage and survival exactly one week after that deadly ef-5 tornado ravaged moore, oklahoma. >> debris starting falling everywhere around us and the dirt started coming in. and then it turned back and i don't

shulman testified he basically didn't know what happened and couldn't be responsible for 90,000 employees. everyone has their hands in the air. no one knew what happened. people need answers and democrats will not defend the administration on this that's why it will have such an effect on his ability to pass his agenda. gregg: ab, i'm almost out of time here so we'll have to make this quick but some are already talking about and some in congress, including mitch mcconnell today saying that some in congress should defund, well this is a different quote from mitch mcconnell. but, some in congress are talking about defunding the irs as the enforcement mechanism for obamacare. do you think that's going anywhere? >> i do. there are a lot of problems on the horizon for the implementation of obamacare. people are very nervous about it, including the administration. i think there is potential there for serious problems once you cross the irs with, with the implementation of the health care law. gregg: yeah. a.b. stoddard, thanks so much. good to see you. >> thank you. gregg: jenna? jenna: big sto

steve miller and paul shulman who testified in front of the house committee in march of 2012 there wasn't. and found out subsequently there was and for months said nothing about it. despite repeated requests for information that came from the committee. if you look the way it was played out there were a lot of people who knew what was going on. i asked if there were conversations about the treasury department and treasury-secretary knew this of june 2012. you have to wonder about how the political schedule impacted this coming out. white house did know april 24th, at least that is what we're told the general counsel was informed about this and conveyed to the chief of staff. this wasn't announced until may 10 tha at aba con convention by lois lerner. that is why i think we need to have more hearings and more opportunities to get the facts out in front of the american people. >> sean: let me go back to stable condition, and dan pfeiffer was on all these programs. he said the law is irrelevant. >> let me ask all of you because there was statement made over the weekend by somebody from the w

>> reporter: shulman testified before the government oversight committee that he visited the obama white house over 100 times during his tenure as irs chief but by contrast his predecessor, mark everson said he went there only a handful of times. he told the "washington examiner" in a recent interview, quote, in my experience, the service was always scrupulous in making sure it did not run afoul of any politics in any way or get involved in being partisan. everson even refused to go to the white house christmas party to avoid the appearance of impropriety. congressional investigators are going to want to know i should say more about shulman's visits and what he was up to when he was at the white house. jenna. jenna: i was an appointee of the bush administration and terms last five years on purpose to try to go beyond politics when an appointee will stay on. >> reporter: that's right. shulman i should add, donated money to the dnc in 2000 four, $250, a $500 a small amount but he was a dnc contributor. jenna: very interesting as we get the character, what happened, who are the people invol

former irs commissioner shulman testified in front of us in march 2012. and said that in quotes, no target targeting, end of quotes, was going on. two months later, he was briefed on the investigation, and was fully informed that, indeed, singling out by name had occurred on his watch. he had an obligation to return to this committee and set the record straight. so did mr. miller. neither fulfilled their obligations. a little more than a week ago, louis learner in front of the oversight subcommittee, she serves as the director of the exempt organization division, and she has been directly involved in this matter. yet she failed to disclose what she knew to this committee. choosing instead to do so at an aba conference two days later this is wholly unacceptable. and one of the reasons we believe, and as i stated several days ago. ms. learner should be relieved of her duties. chairman camp and i put together this hearing on a bipartisan basis to get the facts. we must seek the truth, not political gain. and i just want to add in that regard, mr. camp has sa

>> i already testified, i have no recollection of it. ofwhen commissioner shulman the irs testified before congress in march of 2012 and these questions were posed to him he said "there's been a lot of press about that." your testimony today at white house chief of staff is you did not know. is it malice or incompetence? >> if you just give me the 30 seconds i think i deserve to respond. >> it would be inappropriate -- i asked unanimous consent the gentleman have 30 seconds. >> the time of the gentleman has expired and the chair will take the liberty of without objection offering the witness 30 seconds. >> thank you, mr. chairman. >> gentleman has objected. the chair recognizes the gentleman from massachusetts, mr. lynch. >> mr. secretary, first of all, thank you for your willingness to -- why not i yield you 30 seconds and you can finish? >> i think the fundamental issue here is, there is a separation in the administration of our tax system so it is supposed to be insulated from political involvement. it would be inappropriate as white house chief of staff and sec

the other thing they point out at the white house is doug shulman testified under oath, penalty of perjurydn't tell anybody at the white house discussed this whole idea of targeting so the whole idea he was having discussions about this they say just isn't true. >> why didn't he just say i went to the white house on many occasions to talk about obama care because the irs does have a legitimate tax related function as far as implementing obama care. instead he was flippant in saying well there were easter egg rolls and i would take my kids there. >> that's a great question. we need to ask him that question and we haven't been able to but that is an excellent question. >> it's up to the white house to try to explain and it's been clumsy i think. very difficult for them to do. >> very clumsy. you would think a smart guy like that would have at least said yeah there was a lot of important work i had to do at the white house in implementing obama care. thanks very much for that report. hillary clinton as all of our viewers know was a very popular secretary of state but her approval rating has s

testify. we've also learned that former irs commissioner douglas shulman who is at the helm of the agency during most of the period in which the irs employers were targeting conservative groups will testify before the house oversight committee next wednesday. mr. shulman no longer in government agreed to testify voluntarily, no word yet on whether the head of the irs tax exempt division will testify at the hearing. this hearing before ways and means should get underway shortly. one more note, president obama yesterday tapped a new head, acting head of the irs. it would be danny werfel who is with the office of management and budget, the "washington post" writing this morning that mr. werfel rose through the rank at omb and the justice department as a budget analyst and a lawyer before president obama tapped into serve as omb comptroller in 2009. live coverage here on c-span2. [inaudible conversations] >> the committee will come to order. on may 10, lois lerner, director of exempt or positions for the internal revenue service division that oversees tax-exempt groups finally acknowledged at a dece

on c-span 3, former internal revenue service commissioner douglas shulman will testify as part of thegoing irs investigation. live coverage from the senate finance committee starts at 10:00 a.m. eastern. coming up in 45 minutes, we will talk with freshman maryland congressman john delaney about his bill that would establish a public-private tool for financing infrastructure projects. then virginia congressman frank wolf on his proposal to form a select committee to investigate the attack on the u.s. consulate in and ghazi. later, former u.s. foreign service officer even sure and will talk about the benghazi attack. he is the author of "exit the kernel hole in the secret history of the libyan revolution -- "exit the host: a busy day with lawmakers dealing with many high profile issues but the house of representatives will see a moment of silence for oklahoma, where a tornado killed at least four. aesident obama has signed disaster declaration and he will address the nation at 10:00 a.m.. the national weather service classified yesterday's tornado as an ef4, the second

former irs commissioner douglas shulman is set to testify wednesday. he left the agency in 2012. friday, steven miller, who recently resigned as the acting irs commissioner, faced the heat on the hill at a congressional committee hearing. "congress, this committee messed up by not giving any clear criteria for what a real charitable organization is. ryan: how was that not misleading this committee? you knew the targeting was taking place. you knew the terms 'tea party,' 'patriots' were being used. you just acknowledged a minute ago that they were outrageous. and then when you were asked about this, after you were briefed about this, that was the answer you gave us? how can we not conclude that you misled this committee? miller: "sir, that was a lot of questions, sir." ryan: "it's one. how can we conclude that you did not mislead this committee?" miller: "i did not mislead the committee. i stand by my answer then. i stand by my answer now. harassment, discussion that was part of that question, implies political motivation. there is a discussion going on. there is no political moti

shulman, are you testified today that the council never discussed this matter with you? >> i think, if you're asking the question did anyone from the chief counsel's office come and tell me about meetings they were having with the exempt organization function, i have no memory anyone was doing the. >> try to let me suggest we need to get the chief counsel, william wilkins in to testify, see if the council office signed off on this project. i think that's crucial. mr. miller, let me ask you, as this practice stopped speak with what practice? >> the practice of how they process the consideration of these applications. keywords, conservative, tea party, patriot. >> i believe that that did happen. the names of stopped when last, when lois lerner first learned of it. the second listing by the way, if you take a look at that and the treasury inspector general's report, is still problematic because it talks about policy position. but it actually is not particularly partisan and now it talked about policy position. >> so it was partisan before the? >> yes it absently was spillin

>> i already testified, i have no recollection of it. shulman ofmissioner the irs testified before congress in march of 2012 and these questions were posed to them -- him he said "there's been a lot of press about that." your testimony today at white house chief -- chief of staff is you did not know. is it malice or incompetence? >> if you just give me the 30 seconds i think i deserve to respond. >> it would be inappropriate -- i asked unanimous consent the gentleman cap -- have 32nd. seconds.0 >> the time of the gentleman has expired and the chair will take the liberty of without objection offering the witness 30 seconds. >> thank you, mr. chairman. objected.an has the chair recognizes the gentleman from massachusetts, mr. lynch. >> mr. secretary, first of all, thank you for your willingness to -- why not i yield you 30 seconds and you can finish? >> i think the fundamental issue here is, there is a separation in the administration of our tax system so it is supposed to be insulated from political involvement. it would be inappropriate as white

expected to testify, doug shulman. he is a former commissioner who, last year, told members of congress that there was nothing wrong here at the irs, and with their process of offering tax- exempt status to certain grows. the inspect tore general, who testified before congress friday, he began his probe into the irs last year. we now know the treasury department knew of the investigation at that time. and the office of the white house counsel was told about the investigation nearly a month ago. but president obama only learned when most americans did that workers of the irs cincinnati field office red flagged tax-exempt applications for groups with the term tea pear, 912 or patriot. white house senior adviser dan firefighter hit the talk shows and said despite the investigation it was for the withheld purposely from the president. >> here's the cardinal rule is you do not infear in an independent investigation and you do not do anything to give the appearance of interference if an independent investigation jo but the t

and for the first time, former irs commissioner douglas shulman is testifying, and he offered this initialas dismayed, and i was saddened to read the inspector general's conclusions that actions had been taken creating the appearance that the service was not acting as it should have. that is, as a nonpolitical, nonpartisan agency. >> reporter: let's take a live look at the hearing. a good portion of these congressional hearings involves trying to get at who gave the order to scrutinize these groups. a number of lawmakers saying internship hearing complaints from constituents that the irs was harassing them. lawmakers sent letters to the irs but seemed furious they did not get answers. >> why did you mislead me and my colleagues? my fellow senators? and most importantly, the american people by failing to tell us what you knew about the exact subject we were asking about? why didn't you tell us? >> mr. hatch, i did not lie. >> you what? >> i did not lie, sir. >> you lied by omission. you knew what was going on, and you knew that we had asked. you should have told us. >> reporter: there have

. >> reporter: former irs commissioner douglas shulman testified under oath. >> i think i've said clearly that all this happened under my watch. >> reporter: but shulman did not fall on the sword and refused to apologize to conservative and tea party groups the inspector general says were improperly targeted by the irs. >> i certainly am not personally responsible for creating a list that had inappropriate criteria. >> reporter: when he did learn about the investigation last year, shulman said he did not tell the white house. >> i don't recall telling anyone about it. >> reporter: his successor, steven miller, who has resigned, made a public apology, but also insisted he had not misled congress. >> mr. hatch, i did not lie. >> reporter: senator orrin hatch pushed back that the irs should have notified congress to correct its past denials that targeting occurred. >> mr. miller, that's a lie by omission. there's no question about that in my mind. it's a lie by omission. >> reporter: and today, more questions will go unanswered. the lawyer for irs manager lois lerner wrote to a house committ

. >> democrats ripped shulman for testifying one year ago there was no targeting. never told congress when he learned he was wrong. >> even if it was a phone call, or a letter, or something, i mean, common sense -- >> shulman insisted he was waiting for the inspector general report. >> i didn't have anything concrete. i didn't have a full set of facts to come back to congress or the committee with. >> this democrat even raised the possibility of a special prosecutor, which could lengthen and expand the investigation. >> there will be hell to pay, if that's the route we chose to go down. >> republicans set their sights on an unexpected target, the irs inspector general, who publicized irs wrongdoing. why didn't he update congress before the election about his explosive findings? >> did you ever communicate with anyone in the oversight committee or any member of congress about that? >> the gentleman may answer. >> yes, i did not have discussions with -- >> of course you didn't. >> and they questioned the credibility of the ig audit. this week a senior irs official sat

shulman, i want to go back over your testimony before congress. on march 27, 2012 you testify before the committee on ways and means. you have a chance to talk to mr. miller prior to your testimony? >> on march 22? >> march 22, 2012. in the time prior to that the show chance to talk pashtuns are testifying before congress. you prepare for that. did you speak to mr. miller before your testimony? >> to the best of my knowledge i did. >> okay. how about ms. lerner. did you speak to ms. lerner prior to your testimony? >> i don't know mistaken to ms. lerner before my testimony. >> okay. i want to just describe what the chairman said to you in a dialogue. you said we have seen some recent press allegations that the irs is targeting certain and tea party groups across the country. question was been described as onerous document requests, delaying approval for tax exempt status, and that kind of thing. can you elaborate, this question is do. can you elaborate on what is going on with that? can you give us assurances the irs is not targeting particular groups based on political leaning