and then there is sidney powell, an attorney, on video. she tells prosecutors that trump believed that he had won. >> he knew he had been -- he was -- all his instincts told him he had been defrauded, that the election was a big fraud. >> when you say his instincts, did he ever describe that in any way? did he ever point to any kind of proof or evidence or anything he was getting from his other attorneys or experts? >> well, he talked about, you know, seeing the vote totals rolled backwards on the tv. >> yeah. see, that's not evidence. and he didn't see that because that didn't happen. like so many claims trump makes about the election. he didn't see vote totals roll back on the tv. that's in somebody's mind maybe. not fact. it's actually provably false. powell divulges she pressed donald trump to appoint her and if he had done so, she says she would have tried to seize election equipment. she even said she had considered using the military to get that equipment. tellingly, powell admits she had never even practiced election law before. wh

let's play sidney powell. she gets to one of the key questions of whether or not donald trump knew he lost the election. here's sidney powell. >> were you ever around when someone, anyone, told donald trump that he had lost the election? >> oh, yeah. >> who? >> pat cipollone, eric hirschman, derrick lions all thought he had lost. >> was that in the december 18th meeting? >> yes. >> what was president trump's reaction when this cadre of advisers would say he lost? >> it was like, well, they would say that, and then they would walk out, and he would go, see, this is what i deal with all the time. >> neal, that's an important revelation. >> yeah, absolutely. there's a debate about whether the prosecution in georgia and the prosecution in washington, d.c., jack smith's case, need to actually show that trump believed he had lost. you know, that's a tough legal debate, one way or the other, that i dent want to bore our viewers with. what this evidence shows is even under the higher standard that the prosecutors need

last week we told you that former trump lawyer sidney powell pleaded guilty and agreed to cooperate withcutors in their investigation in trump's attempt to overturn the 2020 election results in georgia you might recall powell from this recent mug shot where she looks like she just saw the video tape from "the ring" and she was on it. [ laughter ] "hello seven days all right. i'll see you then. telemarketers. [ laughter ] or you might also remember powell from her star turn as one of the key witnesses in the january 6th hearing where she was asked about her conversations with president trump in the run-up to the coup attempt. >> in fact, you did get to see the president without an appointment? >> we did. >> in the short period of time that you had with the president, did he seem receptive to the presentation that you were making >> he was very interested in hearing particularly about the cisa finding and the terms of 13848 that apparently nobody else had bothered to inform him of [ laughter ] >> seth: god bless the video editor who decided to leave in that long beat of powell downing her

sidney powell has done no such thing. sidney powell is back out there spewing this election lie garbage. and for that reason, do not think sidney powell is at all a viable witness. i don't think there's a chance the d.a. or any prosecutor calls sidney powell. jenna ellis could be a different story. >> a lot of times the failure to pay legal fees is the straw that breaks the back and sends someone over to the other side. >> she had come out and enor doed ron desantis in the primary. she did ultimately say ron desantis was the better choice for the future. and it's believed by people in trump world that's why he did not offer to pay her legal bills. >> what stood out to me is seeing that clip of jenna ellis -- there's a lot more to come. that's in georgia. but there is an argument going on in the federal case in washington with the special counsel jack smith about cameras being inside the courtroom. and the trump campaign arguing for it. they're arguing against it. it doesn't seem likely, but what do you make? >> there's al

triya -- do you know how he first came into contact with sidney powell? >> when she was trying to get freed on bail. >> what kind of hunt? >> crocodile hunt, as opposed to an alligator hunt. >> bail brought them into the legal circles and discussing this crocodile hunt, but mr. hall is a certain figure. he's a convict, from bail bondsman to needing a bail bondsman. >> rehe luck tant one at that. >> yeah. so let's take a look. >> i had a friend of mine that charters these jets, and i called him and said, for [ bleep ] and giggles, you know, what would it cost me to rent a plane to fly down to coffey county, because i'd like to see how all this [ bleep ] works. they said, for $10,000, we will fly you down and wait and then fly you back. a lot of fricking money, but at the end of the day i said, [ bleep ], i'd like to at least see the process. >> you covered the cost of that? >> i did. >> pardon my french, but i have been [ bleep ] through this whole thing. >> final question, does that help the prosecution or defense more, and what do you think is leaking th

here's new sidney powell. >> there was a big shouting match. book. and i was the worst lawyer he had ever seen in his life. there were no circumstances under which he would work with me on anything. he called me a [ bleep ] and i don't know what all. and that's pretty much all i remember. >> i have just about 30 seconds, but a final word to you, sir. >> yeah, there are two things going on simultaneously here and they're related. we're learning more about how they tried to overthrow an election they knew they had lost. we have got the rule of law to try to rein that in. the second thing is, whether trump wins or loses the next election, he's planning to rule beyond the rule of law. and that would mean an entirely different united states from the one we've got. >> very clear, very sober, appreciate all your work. professor timothy snyder, expert onauthoritarianism. thank you, sir. we'll be right back. ight back. y. before your asthma got in the way? get back to the things you love... with fasenra. fasenra is an add-on treatment for eosinophilic a

we just discussed and bail bondsman sidney powell were hunting for alligators together. these images are of an unrelate alligator hunt. this went down before any of the two of them had any idea they would soon become the legally hunted. we know they didn't get away when powell was getting ready for mug shot. she thought back to her alligator partner, remembering he was a bail bondsman she thought to ask her hunting partner with bond because she hunt alligators. quote, i was going ask him about a bond, but then she learned he was indicted leak her so he would be busy and she would be barred from talking to him as a fellow rico codefendant. these hunted individuals have been given more grace and sympathy than the alligators they once nted, both pleading early, getting deals to avoid jail. >> kristy this is a georgia style coincidence. what did you think when you first heard the alligator connection bringing together two georgia codefendants. >> this is what republicans mean by draining the swamp? i don't know. maybe they found the kraken somewhere along the hunt? it's inte

i think you're seeing quite a contrast between sidney powell and jenna ellis. >> good point. thank you very, very much. >>> just ahead, new video just coming into "the situation room" of a u.s. strike this past weekend in syria. we'll hahave a loive e report f the mimiddle east t coming up.p. >>> breaking news on the u.s. military striking targets in the middle east affiliated with iran following attacks on u.s. forces. cnn's oren lieberman is joining us live from tel aviv. the pentagon i understand just released new video. what does it show? >> reporter: wolf, the u.s. has struck eastern syria three times in the last three weeks in response to a barrage of rocket and drone attacks on u.s. forces. now they have just released video of the most recent attacks. this first video is in abu kamal on the syria/iraq border. it is, according to the u.s., an islamic revolutionary guard corps training site for iran. first one explosion, then a short time later, a second explosion. if you keep watching this video, it appears there are secondary explosions indicating either weapons are he

i think it's interesting sidney powell being normal. jenna ellis thing, it's so stark to me.is her -- one of the president's chief lawyers talking about a conversation she had with dan scavino was tight as anything with donald trump. social media, but almost a body how much he travels and is close to the president. i want to use this word advisedly, from a civic sense, scavino saying we're not going to leave, we don't care, in a civic sense evil. it shows contempt for our democracy on the fundamental level. let me connect the dots. it's a foreshadowing the campaign donald trump vuning which is essentially a promising and more authoritarian autocratic campaign, matter of policy and rhetoric. contempt for democracy. contempt for democratic norms. that's the way they're campaigning. that was their mindset at the end of the office, we'll just refuse to leave power on the basis of no evidence after losing all the cases. that's contempt for our democracy. >> john brings up a really important point because it couples with the vermin comment that trump made this weekend about politic

well, because we were telling him what he want today hear. >> that was sidney powell that said that.yes. and that would negate advice of -- >> of counsel. >> exactly. and sticking your head in the sand, which you can't do, all of that. so substantively this is very bad for trump 100%, but the fact it's out is very bad i think for the prosecution. >> can you talk more about that. obviously fani willis is not happy about this. she wants a protective order. she filed an emergency protective order on top of the protective order she already asked the judge for. a decision is going to be made in two weeks about that. why is this bad for her beyond people knowing what the goods are that she has, or is there not a beyond? >> well, it's mostly that because it's not just people. now, the defense -- the people that she is prosecuting have a complete preview of some of the most as we're discussing damaging testimony. now, maybe they already knew this. they know it through discovery, the defendants who it was given to, but now everybody knows it. and the jury pool knows it, and so it's a better a

you have sidney powell that vowed to release the crackin, in her words, or show an orchestrated cabal presidency. it's notable that sidney powell testified in her statements here that were with prosecutors, meant to be truthful and accurate. you heard jenna ellis say trump did not intend to leave the white house. and then another trump attorney, he was the orchestrater of the false elector scheme. he said he met with donald trump at the white house and advised trump about the fake slate of electors scheme. this is notable because there are questions as to the extent where donald trump was aware of the effort to send the fake slate of electors to washington, d.c. >> according to "the posts," and chesebro says trump was aware of the fake electors. >> yeah, i think all of this testimony tends to advance the ball on the knowledge of intent. the defense attorney's comment about diminishing this evidence reminds me of the kind of evidence you hear in a closing argument and that is to pick a piece of the evidence and say that doesn't prove the case. it's consistent with a theory that donald

referring to sidney powell as the c-word, saying sidney powell is lying, f'ing b word.se of his grossness toward other people, or was it, i don't know, going to hungary without authorization and other things you reveal? >> i'm a long time viewer, first time guest. great to be on with you. i think you named three or four of the many reasons. there's a list of 20 or 10 reasons he was canned. i devote many chapters of the book because it's a mystery, and tucker is promoting conspiracy theories for why he was fired, blaming dominion. this was a bad breakup, like a relationship that goes sour when one side has 20 reasons to dump the other side. the other side doesn't see it coming. this was building for a long time. rupert murdoch decided it wasn't worth it anymore. as one source said to me, his arrogance destroyed him. one producer said we were burning too bright. we knew it wasn't going to last. >> talk about the insight about how they think about why they wanted to put people like sidney powell on, why they wanted to put on the january 6th stuff and the outrageous lies th

like his ex-lawyer, sidney powell, the insane leopard print lady who stood in front of a soaking-wetuliani and claimed -- [ laughter ] -- china, cuba, and the ghost of hugo chavez had all teamed up with an election software company to rig voting machines, and then was later a key witness in the january 6th congressional investigation, where she showed up to her deposition chugging diet dr. pepper like it was -- [ laughter ] -- pepto-bismol and looking like grandma saracen from "friday night lights." [ laughter and applause "hey, grandma, i'm gonna go study with julie, okay?" "matt, lock the door behind you, i don't want hugo chavez to get me." [ light laughter ] "all right, i'll stay. i hope julie doesn't get mad." and yeah, that -- maybe you're thinking that "friday night lights" reference would have worked better when it aired, but not a lot of people watched it then [ laughter ] i don't think it was ever going to work. but if it makes one more person start "friday night lights," it was worth it [ cheers and applause well, powell has now pleaded guilty in georgia, and as part of he

in an interview that lasted nearly three hours, ex-trump lawyer sidney powell positioning herself totors as one who frequently communicated with the former president. >> on the 18th, the only real justification that he's giving you to why he's not bowing out is that his instincts tell him he won? >> that would be evidence that i've shown. >> reporter: powell testifying trump had been repeatedly told he had lost the election. but relied on his instincts and allegedly leaned on her for advice according to powell, though she acknowledged she never practiced election law. >> he never told you, like, this crazy stuff, this information? >> no. >> reporter: in a statement, trump's lead georgia attorney slamming, quote, any purported private conversation as meaningless, writing in part, if this is the nonsense line of inquiry being pursued and this is the type of bogus ridiculous evidence d.a. willis intends to rely upon, it is one more reason this political travesty of a case must be dismissed. during his interview with prosecutors, co-defendant kenneth chesebro also testified that trump wa

it's because of people like jenna ellis and sidney powell. sidney powell standing there after presser after presser, suggesting she was going to release a kraken. there was an international -- jenna ellis, in arizona, she was down there with rudy giuliani, making the case to speaker rusty bower to overturn and allow the legislature to give donald trump the win in arizona. to hear this to the extent that trump loyalists hear from these folks and see the proffer videos, i'm not sure, but it hits at the heart of the argument for the cameras being in the courtroom for the federal election interference case. these are compelling and revealing. >> jonathan, you wrote the book on the big steal. tell us about these two players and the significance of them stepping forward now and saying it was all a lie, and specifically that donald trump was told by his lawyers -- >> many times. >> -- by his lawyers many times that he lost the election. >> that's the most important point, which we'll come back to. in terms of refreshing people's memories, sidney pow

"the washington post" also has this, i want to ask you more about sidney powell. he washington post" said relied on her advice and powell replied with this, because we were the only ones willing to support his effort to sustain the white house. i mean, everybody else was telling him to pack up and go. what does this provide? >> well, the overall powell proffer is not as strong as the ellis proffer because powell doesn't as conclusively repudiate the events of the run-up to january 6th, but her -- but, still, there are points of value in her -- this is one, why? donald trump has already signaled he wants to defend himself by saying, i relied on the lawyers. that is a technical legal defense, but only if you're taking the advice of the lawyers in good faith. if you're picking and choosing your lawyers based upon the outcome you want, you don't get to use that defense, and so this shows that she's a firsthand direct witness to the conversation with trump. it kind of goes back to the scavino point. we're not going to leave no matter what, and i'm going to pick the lawy

o'donnell, former chief operating officer of the trump plaza hotel, this is something that said sidney powell was instrumental, i will play that in a moment. but first, after that, cooperating, and testifying, now, that is the clip that has been released. how significant is she? >> it looks like she could be very significance. and potentially -- >> in a special counsel? >> yes, if they can show that he lost and said he was holding onto power, that is came over, and she is telling him that is essentially over. we just lost a major supreme court case and he says, we are staying in power, we do not care, we are staying in power. >> abc also obtained sidney powell's interview. she says multiple traumatic white house lawyers, this whole point that we kept honing in on for so long, did people really know. multiple people told him that he lost and here is how she said that trump responded. here is the clip. >> what was president trump's reaction? >> it was like, they say that, then they walk out. this is what they deal with all the time. >> she throws her hands up in the air, it seems, mimicking the

his hands are deep insideing to point sidney powell to special counsel. he's basically one insurrection act or declaration of martial law away from doing what jenna lis said he wanted to do, which is we're not going to lee. >> as bill barr said, he was detached from reality. and that's what strike mess about this. the story about dan, this is hearsay. he's a notorious loud mouth. but it's an indication of the rabbit holes they were prepared to go, how little interest they in h in the transfer of power. and they are reporting that donald trump became obsessed with the notion that even after he left office he could be reinstated as president. so think about all of this together. it's easy to take these things separate and see them as sweet little incidents, but what you have here is a president of the united states who is detached from reality, completely uninterested in the constitutional norm of the peace transfer of power surrounding himself with people who were feeding him conspiracy theories, ignoring the voices in the room telling him the truth. and a

you may remember sidney powell.ed crazy conspiracy theories about how the ghost of hugo chavez rigged the 2020 election, and promised to publish non-existent evidence of widespread fraud, vowing to release the kraken. turns out in the end, it was less "release the kraken" and more "i think she might be smoking the kraken." powell wasn't known just for talkin' crazy. she was also known for writin' stupid, because her legal documents were notoriously littered with spelling errors, misplaced states, and client mix-up. in one case, the court was misidentified as "the united states districct court, northern distr-coict of georgia." while in another, she referenced the "suprior" court of the state of arizona. i'm not surprised she spells like that. she got her degree from herrverd lawr. herrverd lawr. perk the ker in herrverd yerd. perk the ker in herrverd yerd. powell pleaded guilty to six counts of conspiracy related to her role in helping to carry out a breach of voting equipment in a rural georgia county and will serv

"the washington post" and abc news made public excerpts of ellis and sidney powell. watch this as ellis recounts a conversation with one high ranking trump advisor where he said the boss wasn't leaving the white house for any reason. >> i emphasized him -- i thought that the claims and the ability to challenge the election results was essentially over. he said to me in a kind of excited tone, well, we don't care, and we're not going to leave. and i said what do you mean? and he said the boss is not going to leave under any circumstances, we're just going to stay in power. and i said to him it doesn't really work that way you realize. and he said we don't care. >> we don't care. the video was filmed during ellis' proffer session where she was required to lay out everything she knew that the prosecution could use in exchange for a plea deal. nbc news did not obtape the videos and they've not been independently verified. ellis is one of four codefendants in the sprawling georgia rico case that accepted a lighter sentence in exchange for information. sidney powell who ac

well, because we are telling them what they wanted to hear. >> that was sidney powell this at the. >>t would negate a sort of defense of -- >> advice of counsel. >> exactly, and sticking your head and the sand, but you can't do, all of that. slept stunted flee, this is bad for trump, 100%. but the fact that it is out is a very bad, i think, for the prosecution. >> can you talk more about the. obviously, fani willis is not happy about this. she wants a protective order, file for an emergency protective order on top of the protective order that she asked a judge for. a decision i believe will be made in two weeks about that. why is this bad for her beyond people knowing what the goods are that she has? or is there not a beyond? >> it's mostly that, because it's not just people. now, the defense, the people that she has prosecuted have a complete preview of some of the most, as we're discussing, damaging testimony. now, maybe they already knew this, maybe they know it through discovery, the defense moved that way was given to, but now everyone knows it, and the jury poll knows it, so it'

the witnesses, jenna ellis, sidney powell, kenneth chesebro and scott hall, people once among trump'strongest supporters, but now talking to fulton county prosecutors as part of their plea deals. garrett haake with more details. >> reporter: this morning, new revelations in the 2020 election interference case. >> his instinct was to get one. >> pardon my french, but -- >> reporter: through a series of taped interviews between prosecutors and defendants who accepted plea deals, first reported by abc news and published by "the washington post." >> he said to me and in a kind of excited tone, well, dwoent we don't care and we're not going to leave. >> reporter: jenna ellis who pleaded guilty last month detailing to prosecutors an alleged conversation with dan scavino at a white house christmas party. >> he said, the boss is not going to leave under any circumstances. we are just going to stay in power. and i said to him, well, it doesn't quite work that way, you realize. and he said, we are don't care. >> reporter: in an interview that lasted nearly three hours, ex-trump lawyer sidney po

that because these videos were out that they were sending a message to people like jenna ellis, sidney powell could be sending messages to them if they were to testify going forward. the other piece of witness intimidation we're watching is harrison floyd. he's one of the 15 codefendants, being threated th being put back in jail, having his bond revoked. he's one of the lower profile of the original codefendants, but somebody according to the d.a. has repeatedly violated the terms of his bond agreement. he has been tweeting, mentioning the secretary of state, other state officials, the d.a. says similar to the video leak amounts to witness intimidation, and she's trying to put a stop to it. the judge has set a hearing next week to hear whether or not the bond will be revoked. >> blayne alexander, thank you very much. >>> and coming up next, botox, what else congressman george santos spent campaign money on. oh... stuffed up again? so congested! you need sinex saline from vicks. just sinex, breathe, ahhhh! what is — wow! sinex. breathe. ahhhhhh! (bridget) with thyroid eye disease i hid from th

sidney powell, jenna lis, kennetheseo and scott hall.undes - the plea deals underscore the strategy that willis has refined extending offers to lower-level defendants in which they incriminate higher-level defendants in the conspiracy pyramid. this development out of fulton county comes as another state case involving the ex-president is moving along. today on the stand in the new york civil fraud trial where witnesses associated with deutsche bank, the largest lender to trump's businesses defending the bank's decision to let the trump organization borrow money. just yesterday we learned from trump's lawyers that the former president will take the stand in his own defense next month. he will be the defense's last witness and that is scheduled for december the 11th. and that's where we start this hour with msnbc legal analyst lisa ruben here with me at the table plus former deputy assistant attorney general and former united states attorney harry litman and "the new york times" investigative reporter susanne craig is back. welcome to all

. >> sidney powell and jenna ellis, who were charged with aiding donald trump's alleged efforts to overturn the 2020 election. >> all his instincts told him he had been defrauded. >> powell and ellis, who were indicted alongside trump and 16 others, cut plea deals on reduced charges in exchange for their cooperation with prosecutors in georgia's investigation to the former president, abc news obtaining these excerpts of their confidential interviews where ellis tells prosecutors she was personally informed by trump adviser dan scavino that trump had no plans to leave the white house despite fight. biden winning the 2020 election. >> and he said to me and a kind of excited tone, well, we don't care and we're not going to leave. he said. the bus is not going to leave under any circumstance. forces. we are just going to stay in power. >> i think it's helpful to the state when you look at the evidence because you've got somebody saying that he doesn't care whether he won the election or not. he's staying. but i think that there's going to be some challenges to that by some of the defense attorn

videos published by "the washington post" and other news outlets show defendants like jenna ellis, sidney powellro being interviewed by prosecutors. all of that was part of their plea agreements. an attorney for one of the 19 defendants admitted in court he released videos because the public had the right to see them. well, thanksgiving is just over a week away, and there is plenty to be thankful for when it comes to your budget. in tonight's "money watch," cbs's jo ling kent's claims that while overall prices are lower, any turkey day classics have gotten a lot more expensive, and it starts on the farm. >> reporter: it's down to the wire at gunthorp farms in lagrange, indiana. they are packing up the turkeys they raised and shipping them out for thanksgiving. you are in high season right now. >> right, yep. >> reporter: like, it's crunch time. >> yeah, it's crunch time. >> reporter: greg gunthorp says inflation just won't quit, hitting the farm's bottom line. >> oh, inflation has drastically impacted our cost of production. small family farms have a difficult time figuring out where we fit in t

sidney powell also told prosecutors trump was determined to stay in power, despite his aides repeatedly telling him he lost. what was president trump's reaction when this cadre of advisers would say, you lost? >> it was like -- well, they would say that and then they'd walk out, and he'd go, see, this is what i deal with all the time. >> reporter: trump has plead not guilty and denied wrongdoing. during powell's guilty plea they both denied she was his lawyer. but powell told prosecutors trump knew she was one of the few willing to support him. >> i was the most experienced federal practitioner in the group. did i know anything about election law? no. >> reporter: powell pushed the outrageous conspiracy theory that voting machines were controlled by venezuela, even pointing a finger at former dictator hugo chavez, who died nearly a decade earlier. >> this was exported by venezuela by maduro and by mr. chavez. this is the consummate foreign interference in our election. >> reporter: she told prosecutors trump weighed a plan to seize voting machines in multiple states, despite no evidence

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. >> there's sidney powell testimony. abc news hearing from her.n to this. >> what was president trump's reaction, when his cadry of advisers would say he lost? >> it was like, well, they would say that and then walk out. he would say, see? this is what i deal with all the time. i will say, with respect to ellis, trump's lead counsel in fulton county told abc news, that the statement of the private conversation, absolutely meaningless. you're chuckling, why? >> he's probably saying anything he can. but the reality is, this is really hitting paydirt. one of the most difficult but core aspects of a prosecutor's job is to find an evidentiary job of the mind o to the defendant. this is a door that can open. you're seeing instances where mr. trump is apparently showing that state of mind. demonstrating he realizes full well that he didn't win, even though they are saying, they're not going anywhere. there's going to be a little evidentiary challenge for jenna ellis. t there's going to be a here say objection. she will say, they can get over the hurdle b

and as for sidney powell who has pushed some more of the fringe theories, she described the encounters of what she told the white house attorneys that he had lost the election. >> what was president trump's reaction when faced with the cadre of advisers would say he lost. >> it is like, well, they would say that, and then they would walk out, and he'd go, see, this is what i deal with all of the time. >> in exchange for her cooperation, powell pleaded guilty to six lesser misdemeanors, and what this provides and what we know from this. joining us is caroline polisi and white crime political attorney, and caroline, you are saying these proffer videos are gold mooin for prosecutors and why? >> this is part and parcel of fannie the prosecutor's plan all along. they wanted to get the lower chain co-op ray tortoise flip. these are gold mines for the prosecutors because they go to president trump's state of mind. we heard there that multiple lawyers were telling trump at the time that he lost the election. i think that the dan scavino quote from jenna ellis' perspective is a big deal saying

. >> sidney powell and jenna ellis. >> and then these leak and they tried to find out who had done it and one said in an email to the district attorney, it was us and then rescinded us and said just kidding. that was a typo. it wasn't us. and then today in court attorneys for another defendant, misty hampton, said we are the ones that leaked this information. we believe the public had a right to see this. so, the judge, understandably, has here issued a protective order to protect the leak of additional information. cnn are opposed to this kind of protective order believing there is a public interest in seeing evidence like this but the judge notes that there are things that the jury will never see and there is a reason for that so it is unlikely but not impossible we'll see any other leaks. >> i'm in favor of leaks. if full transparency. get it all out. >> and let the american people see it. paula reid, good to see you. >>> say donald trump doesn't make the cut as the 2024 gop nominee. it could happen. unlikely but it could happen. who would be a better choice for republicans in gove

cut deals speak to go investigators, and they were part of a plea deal for attorneys jim ellis, sidney powell, ken chesebro. nick, the hearing just ended. what happened? >> reporter: prosecutors and defense attorneys have agreed in principle to a protective order where prosecutors will have to designate what they believe is sensitive materials in the pretrial discovery material and defense attorneys will have 14 days to respond. i should mention the judge here, judge mcafee, hasn't yet made a ruling from the bench and today was no different. listen to him talk about what a protective order could look like in this case. >> the state originally proposed what i would characterize as a blanket, umbrella protective order, anything and everything that is turned over that wasn't already public or part of the defense file was going to be held under seal. whereas my reading of mr. schaefer's proposed order is there is going to be this intermediary designation of some things will be sensitive and that's what's not allowed to be turned over, so it's not everything. is that a fair read of that, mr. wade?

you only cut sweetheart deals if there are star witness, and i think jen ellis and sidney powell are right now looking like big stars. they were in the room where it happened, and were basically saying no, it's clear that what happened in that room was that donald trump committed major crimes. >> now, let's take a look at the video, and the portion of the video obtained by abc news, attorney general ellison, pleaded guilty the day after she did this video interview with the prosecutors, described a conversation that she had at the final trump white house christmas party with dan scavino, a person who could not possibly have been employed in politics or government by anyone other than donald trump. dance given it working for donald trump, a job he was fully qualified for, as donald trump's golf caddie. here is the video of that conversation obtained by abc news. >> at the time, a period where they would start to discuss -- >> at the time, i believe his title was social media director for the white house, and became deputy chief of staff at the time that the conversation to place. >> a

might as well throw in sidney powell while we're at it. also plotting a return ironic white nationalist dracula stephen miller who returned in a senior role, already planning the most spectacular migration crack down. a second trump term could also inside with a fully complicit trump congress led by christian house speaker mike johnson. he traveled to mar-a-lago to kiss the ring on monday, meeting with trump days after endorsing the 91-count indicted former president. and in yet another sign of the wholesale trumpification of the republican party, one of the few republicans who voted to impeach trump after january 6th, former republican congressman peter miger of michigan who lost a primary over his impeachment vote now says he would support trump if he was the party nominee. call it what you will, pathetic, embarrassing. it is, however, the republican party putting its full embrace around the man who in turn is making fascism is autocracy the center piece of his third run for the white house. as he did recently, calling his political oppo

we saw the proffer for sidney powell, that jenna ellis, two attorneys have pleaded guilty in the caseni willis also filed an emergency motion to try to serve -- to have a protective order in this case. the fact that there were leaks at all, though. how does that bear in terms of the actual trial? >> well, first off, it was a surprise to me, probably a surprise to you as well that there was no protective order in place. >> right? i thought that was odd too. >> engaging in discovery without a protective order. but local practices in different places. so that was a surprise. i don't know how much of an impact this will have. there could be an argument there is some tainting of the jury pool, there is some witness intimidation. but really looking at the little clips i was able the see, i don't know how much of that was coming in as evidence, or really what the legal consequence of it being leaked is. if someone did violate a standing order of the court or some other directive, depending on where the leak was from, there could be a consequence for that. >> there is one order in fulton coun

they showed proffer sessions from jenna ellis and sidney powell who were giving info on trump's attempts the election. back with me now is rebecca grant and marcus childress. i mean, first of all, the fact that they did not already have some sort of protective order is surprising, still, i mean, the fact that this was almost inevitable, when would think. obviously, we don't want to have this happen. but why not have that in the first place? >> it's pretty common, just to say they have a protective order, especially in criminal trials and especially when you know what the defendants and types of witnesses you are dealing with in this matter. i mean, it was pretty appalling to me that i can send an email to witnesses during the january six investigation. and within minutes, my emails were -- and this is not as sensitive as the emission evidence that the fulton county d.a. is sending out. i'm happy there's a protective order in place for sensitive information because we do have to think about protecting these witnesses and ensure the safety of the actual investigation, integrity as we move

reid bartiromo went on the air, told a tale with the help of sidney powell, the trump aligned lawyer, and trump started saying it. it was fox that story that gets us down the path towards january 6th. >> what stuns me is the degree to which donald trump is at once the puppet master and the puppeteer -- sorry, the puppet itself, right? when he seem tuesday have exhausted his utility for fox news after january 6th, there's this brief moment where they're like, oh, forget that guy, never mind including sean hannity. >> his greatest ally. >> sean hannity who was the shadow chief of staff in the white house, right, you have reporting sean hannity after january 6th, suzanne scott, fox's ceo, tells rupert murdoch he wants to help lead the 75 million away from trump. >> the 75 million refers to trump's voters in 2020 and here's sean hannity saying i'm ready to take them in a more reality based truthful direction. and the boss is saying it to rupert murdoch. the entire network is behind this plan to move away from trump. trump's not wrong. there was a conspiracy against him inside fox. from no

kenneth chesebro, john eastman, rudy giuliani, sidney powell, these are trump's lawyers who are now criminally indict. those are the kind of folks or the actual folks trump would like to have in the white house making big decisions if he wins in 2024. your reaction. >> this is the model of roy cohn. we are talking about not a legal system. this is an extra legal system. my issue is not with the federalist society. it's not, oh, i disagree with the opinion of pat cipollone or don megan and i think it's wrong to be thinking of it as liberal versus federalist society in terms of those are legitimate differences, and you can have really -- real debates about it. but there are people who have lines. don megan had a real line. he was not willing to lie for the former president. pat cipollone was not willing to engage in insurrection. i know a lot of people would say that's not a high bar, but they were willing to say, no, they were acting as lawyers within their own principles. this is taking a play book out of fascist authoritarian regimes where lawyers are part of the tools of giving a veneer of l

deeply problematic, and i wonder how much it matters that three of his lawyers like ken chesebro, sidney powelld jenna alice have all pleaded guilty in georgia to state criminal charges. how much does that matter in all this? >> right, so it really does especially for the ones who unlike jenna ellis, but kenneth chesebro was an unnamed unindicted coconspiratorter in d.c. you cannot rely on advice from lawyers if they happen to be your partner in crime. so all sorts of implications here. and at bottom for trump to make out the defense, it's tough to figure out how he'll prove it other than by taking the witness stand himself, so we may not see him move forward with this defense at the end of the day. >> just practically speaking january 15th as a deadline, is that a sufficient amount of time to prepare a defense given what he may claim? >> well, it's a smart date because trump agreed to that date in earlier filings with the judge. so she in essence avoided any problems on appeal. look, it gives the government a couple of months. they see this one coming from far away. and to the extent that trum

well, 24 hours later on sunday morning, it was fox's maria bartiromo and sidney powell who seeded the story about dominion, that basically said to trump's audience, there's a villain of this story. it's a company called dominion. they somehow tricked you. they stole the election started to come through on a sunday. by the following thursday, trump started repeating it as well. it wasn't trump. it was fox that started it. >> look how we're still talking about this almost at the next election. you've been interviewing the dominion lawyers. i assume they're still pretty business. >> they're going to be litigating cases well through 2024. that's one of the crazy things about this. the accountability for these election lies is playing out mostly in the courts. you cover it every day, the january 6th cases, the trump trials and these civil actions against fox and newsmax. >> you talk about trump stoking this, but he had a platform to stoke it as well on fox to use these election lies. you say civility was plummeting, americans more and more defining themselves by who or what they opposed, d

network of lies, fox needed a ratings rebound, and some producers explicitly said, rudy giuliani and sidney powelly with rudy and sidney's guaranteed gold. fox executives discussed segments featuring trump lawyers and their election lies, as tenth polls, meaning despite the rating so possibly, it looked like a tent pole. brian stats are puts it in his new book, the lesson fox learned from the arizona caucus not to tell its audience things that it did not want to hear, and definitely not to say anything that could be seen. as bad for donald trump. that lesson went well beyond fox coverage of the 2020 election. after the january 6th attack, tucker carlson tried to brush off the gravity of the insurrection and went out of his way to avoid pinning any of the blame for it on trump. carlson's executive producer explained that, in a tax, by referencing that arizona decision. we're threading a needle that has to be tried because that the dumb bleeps at fox on election day. we can't make people think we've turned against trump. one of the other big revelations from stelter's book, at one point, fox did try

they can actually start defending against comments that someone like ken chesebro or sidney powell has made. they can come up with excuses for why they made those comments. they could create a defense or an information. in other circumstances would not. have it hurts fani willis. when she wants to do is get people into a room and asking questions. if they already know the answers that she is aware of, they'll have an easier time, i think, trying to defend themselves. >> benji, let's talk about the big shocker we heard just a few minutes ago. fani willis saying this trial could go into early 2025. obviously past election day. what does that mean for trump? music to his ears? >> in general trump's strategy in pretty much every one of these cases has been to try to delay, delay, delay, push it is far down the line is fossil, hopefully something will happen in his favor by then. he could win the public to his side. in his side he is the most unusual legal strategy of all, which is he could win the presidency, which would make some of these cases unlikely to come forward and the federal cas

his counsel, rudy giuliani, and sidney powell, and kevin chesebro, and john eastman, and charged coconspiratorsll our viewers, there is no such thing as an advice of coconspirator defense. donald trump has nowhere to turn on this one. >> and glenn, let's stay on this path for the time we have left together. what about the admissibility of things like kenneth chesebro? sydney powell? jenna ellis? admitting their guilty pleas in fulton county. things like rudy giuliani in a civil lawsuit brought by -- saying yeah, i'm conceding liability on this. i knew that what i was saying is not true about fraud being perpetrated. is any of that going to be admissible in a trial like that for judge chutkan? >> absolutely. all of these are real danger zones to donald trump. most recently, we have seen just how sweeping the evidence that jacks mitt seeks to introduce against donald trump will be. it looks like his approach is no piece of incriminating evidence will be left behind. it will all be presented to that d.c. jury. the fact that so many of donald trump's attorneys -- have already admitted, guilt that e

. >> reporter: meanwhile, in an interview that lasted nearly three hours, ex-trump lawyer sidney powell to prosecutors as one who frequently communicated with the former president. >> his instincts tell him that he won. >> that and the evidence that i'm showing. >> reporter: trump had been repeatedly told he had lost the election, but relied on his instincts and allegedly leaned on her for advice, according to powell, who admitted she never practiced election law. in a statement, trump's lead georgia attorney slamming, quote, any purported private conversation as meaningless, writing in part, if this is the nonsense line of inquiry being pursued and this is type of evidence the da intends to rely upon, it is one more reason that this political travesty of a case must be dismissed. >>> some tensions on display on capitol hill. republican congressman said he was elbowed by former house speaker kevin mccarthy. one of the eight lawmakers who voted to remove mccarthy as speaker last month. fireworks at a pretty mundane senate hearing, oklahoma senator markwynn muller threatening to fight the

and he listened to the giuliani and sidney powell in a circle, as opposed to even his own vice president could cut very deeply into his defense that he was only following lawyers advice. you cannot just pick and choose law, is cherry pick the ones who are telling you what you want to hear, for that defense to hold. >> kimberly brings up the name rudy giuliani, and i'd be remiss, joyce, if i did not get your opinion on the news today that fani willis, the d.a. down in fulton county, there is reporting that she is prepared to offer plead deals, or has left the plea deal door open, if you will, to all of the named coconspirators in that fulton county case, except donald trump, rudy giuliani, and mark meadows. to some extent, trump does not surprise me being a name on that list. but i was in fact surprise that giuliani and meadows are not people she is seeking to turned prosecution witnesses. were you? >> no, not at all. i think she is certainly not looking to hand out deals to them. in a r.i.c.o. case, there is a lot of advantage to trying the people at the top, the general and the left ten

they are not sidney powell, they are not mark meadows, they are just regular folks. ultimately who you have to appeal to in a jury trial is the jurors who are going to have the same kind of jobs as the people -- as relate-able. to the lawyer point that kaitlan, raised this is a time tested trump tactic. he baseless own lawyers of, course but people around him, which naturally it is not illegal to do, that it is common. but it has the effect of deterring potential cooperation. these folks get subpoenas, they understand that -- at least some of them have done just that. >> what with the secret service agents -- >> this is an interesting question. this came up in the clinton investigation by ken starr in 98. ken starr wanted to talk to bill clinton service agent, it was litigated and fought in court. the core, said they can testify. there is not some special privilege or protection for secret service agents. so i think prosecutors need to be careful here. you don't want to create a situation where secret service agents are trying to distance themselves that they don't h

meadows, and his former vice president mike pence, as well as his former lawyers jenna ellis and sidney powell. but, again, the idea of revoking trump's bond, of punishing him with jail time for this kind of intimidation, that has yet to be put on the table in either case. and while harrison floyd's hearing today ended with the judge imposing a broader and stricter order controlling harrison floyd's speech, donald trump had a ruling on his gag order yesterday. and the ruling was the appeals court will narrow trump's gag order. one of the judges on the panel said they have to use a careful scalpal to carve out a narrow order while not limiting trump as a presidential candid. you can see the legal system is treading very, very carefully here, one would even say lightly. and the net result of that is that trump gets to have it both ways. at campaign rallies trump gets to use the cases against him to score political points. >> every time i'm indicted, i can consider it a great badge of honor because i'm inbeing indicted for you. thanks a lot, everybody. i appreciate it. >> and meanwhile, in court