know but if the environmental organizations are the domain of white liberals you know well the sierra club. there are environmental justice groups some of that's the that's the alternative the looking out from from below so to speak that. there has to be. a. there is something of an environmental justice who are the major spokes person of that for a long time is a rubber bullet in texas and he was going to see incentives to go in there all but nevertheless within the united states i think that one of the tragedies is that that very class divide has. essentially separated those who are interested environmental justice. that's should be a focus of our efforts and it is indeed a focus my efforts even what i talk about in the book that the environment environmental movement is something that the proactive positive side does involve everybody and most of all the people who were worst affected by the current distribution of power great thanks that was author victor wallace about his new book red green revolution the politics and technology of eco so. thank you very much. part of something is bet

. >> now, people should know that your background is not from -- as much as i love the sierra club --hat route. your background is from trying to solve plastic problems at intel. >> yeah. i like to say, jim, i'm an accidental environmentalist. you know, i ran a materials team at intel, and our focus was -- in around 2000 timeframe, 2004 -- was focused on reducing cost and in a way of reducing cost, we kept falling on technologies that were, not only better for intel from a cost-structure standpoint but, were better for the environment. and ultimately gave us the idea and concept to -- a lot of engineers and scientists that have come from intel with us to tackle this problem. it was a massive market and a huge problem if you got an intel background, we love the challenge. >> i am a little bit confused. jim fitterling is a terrific guy. david taylor rouns proctor. why don't they spend billions and buy footprint? >> you know, jim, i -- i ask myself that question all the time the reality is, you know, why did blockbuster not start netflix? you know, i believe that they're so beholden to t

the puritans of which roger williams was one, were not members of the sierra club. when though talked about wilderness, wilderness is a place of desolation, danger, this is where evil lurked. so when roger williams talks about protecting the garden of the church from the wilderness of the world, what he is saying in effect is let's protect the integ ri integrity of the faith by not confusing it with the politics of the state. that is the genius of the formulation in my judgement. let me give you an example of how this plays out. a lot of you remember next door in alabama judge roy moore with roy's rock right? the monument with the ten commandments. i was an expert witness in that case. i was, you know, i was one of the few baptists around, frankly, even though i'm not a baptist. because roger williams is absolutely right. when do you that sort of thing, you fetishize the faith. you trivialize the faith. just fast forward in that case. when the judge ruled in -- i forget his name at the moment -- i'll get it later. i forgot right now. properly. it was unconstitutiona

the puritans, of which roger williams was one, were not members of the sierra club.so when they talked about wilderness, wilderness was a place of desolation. this is where evil worked. when he talks about protecting the garden of the church from the wilderness of the world, what he's saying in effect is let's protect the integrity of the faith by not confusing it with politics or with the state. and that's the genius of roger williams' formulation in my judgment. let me give you an example hof how this plays out. a lot of you remember next door in alabama, judge moore, the monument with the ten commandments. i was called as one of the expert witnesses in that case and i was one of the few baptists around, frankly, even though i'm not a baptist, because roger williams was absolutely right. the problem is when you do that sort of thing, you triv yialize the faith. when the judge ruled -- i've forgotten his name at the moment. when he ruled that it was unconstitutional because it violated the establishment clause of the first amendment and the workers were preparing to

for sierra and gabrielle, their father was theiromforter and cheerleader. he was 46. before we go, a note our "now read this" book clubrecently spoke with author julia phillips about our april selection, the novel "disappearing earth." you can find the whole conversation online. here now is a brief excerpt, in which she speaks of the novel's setting in the remote kamchatka province of russia. ka i have been thinking a lot abouhatka during this covid-19 time during this arronavirus era. folks therunder a shelter- in-place order right now and staying at home and i've been thinking about how connected arery part of the world is that there's noof the globe that is untouched by the disease or bfear or by the desire to take care of each other by doing what we can and to help our communities. d i've been thinking a l about a lot of the characters in my book are in quite claustrophobic settings dealing with the cllenges of loving the people there with up close because they're kept very,ery close. but i've been thinking jealously of also homuch open space they have around th. i'm talking to you from a apartment building thais