simon clark, to stop. you have to stop it. simon clark. speak _ to stop. you have to stop it.of sympathy for your argument because people have free will and i know some people find it difficult to give up smoking but there are millions upon millions of people who have given up. for some people, it is very difficult. other people give up overnight. should people have free will to take drugs? _ should people have free will to take drugs? ht_ should people have free will to take dru:s? �* ., ., ., ,, drugs? at the moment, we are talking about a legal— drugs? at the moment, we are talking about a legal drug. _ drugs? at the moment, we are talking about a legal drug. make _ drugs? at the moment, we are talking about a legal drug. make tobacco i about a legal drug. make tobacco ille . al, about a legal drug. make tobacco illeual, it about a legal drug. make tobacco illegal. it is _ about a legal drug. make tobacco illegal, it is not _ about a legal drug. make tobacco illegal, it is not free _ about a legal drug. make tobacco illegal, it is not free will, - about a legal drug. make t

and also with us is simon clark, director of the group forest. n, is smoking a net cost or net gain? simon: it depends on what figures you take. but the figures we looked at are the revenue the treasury gets from the sale of tobacco. that is 10 billion pounds a year. against that, the cost of treating smoking-related diseases is said to be 2.5 billion pounds. people come up with lots of estimates for how much societal costs are involved. but they arell calculated on the act of a cigarette pack. what we do know is smoking contributes to over 10 billion pounds a year. that is money that smokers set on the all gave up, the treasury would have to find several else. christian: it is very popular if you look at polling, 70% on amount of people are in favor. this will be a free vote in the parliament. as chris set at the top of the program, conservatives generally are not keen on banning things. what do you make of this policy? simon: i think it is utterly ridiculous, coming from a conservative government, which is supposed to promote things like freedom

and simon clark from forest, which is a lobby group largely funded by the tobacco industry. f the prime minister's plans?— minister's plans? i think it's a fairly cynical _ minister's plans? i think it's a fairly cynical pre-election - minister's plans? i think it's a i fairly cynical pre-election stunt. fairly cynical pre—election stunt. rishi had to come out, pull a couple of

cheeseman, she is the deputy chief executive of ash — action on smoking and health — and also with us simon clarkt or a net gain for the exchequer? it smoking a net cost or a net gain for the exchequer?— the exchequer? it depends on what fi . ures the exchequer? it depends on what fiuures ou the exchequer? it depends on what figures you take, _ the exchequer? it depends on what figures you take, but _ the exchequer? it depends on what figures you take, but the _ the exchequer? it depends on what figures you take, but the figures i figures you take, but the figures that we look at our the revenue that the treasury gets from the sale of tobacco in that is over £10 billion a year. against that, the cost of treating smoking—related diseases on the nhs is said to be 2.5 billion. people come up with lots of weird and wonderful estimates for how much societal costs are involved, but there are all calculated on the back of cigarette pack. what we do know, is that smokers contribute over £10 billion a year. that is money that if the smokers suddenly all gave up, the treasury would have to find from somewh

earlier we spoke to simon clarke from a lobby group largely funded by the tobacco industry.o introduce this policy to phase out smoking. smoking rates have been falling for 50 years and they continue to fall. the current smoking rates in all age groups are at their lowest ever recorded. there is no need for this type of draconian policy. it is only going to fuel the black market because it. young people smoking, they will simply get their tobacco from the black market. once they are a bit older they will get it from abroad. there is also the infantilised vision of society. once you are 18 you are an adult and it is up to you to decide if you want to drink alcohol, smoke tobacco and fewer and fewer people are smoking tobacco. the government has to educate people about the health risks of smoking and encourage people to go to reduced risk products, which many people are already doing. let's talk more about this with phil chamberlain. he is the deputy director of the tobacco control research group at the university of bath. thank you forjoining us. i'm going to put some of thos

and simon clark from forest, which is a lobby group largely funded by the tobacco industry. have you both with us. simon, what do you make of the prime minister's plans? i simon, what do you make of the prime minister's plans?— minister's plans? i think it's a fairly cynical _ minister's plans? i think it's a fairly cynical pre-election - minister's plans? i think it's a i fairly cynical pre-election stunt. fairly cynical pre—election stunt. rishi had to come out, pull a couple of rabbits from the hat during party conference, he was under a lot of criticism because of the hs2 farce, so he has picked on one of the biggest groups in society, which are smokers. we have to remember that to put this in perspective, smoking rates have been falling for 50 years and they continue to fall, and the current smoking rates in all age groups are the lowest ever recorded level. so there is absolutely no need for this type of draconian policy. this is only going to fuel the black market because it will not stop young people smoking, they will simply get their tobacco from the black market, a

they're talking about sir simon clarke, who said you should ignore this because it's a you don't knowyou don't know what video is. been what the video is. it's been massive today. massive on the today. >> can't it. >> we can't play it. >> we can't play it. >> we can't play it. >> we play it because we >> we can't play it because we go out of 5 am. but it's starmer saying that tablet f sake told you didn't sake i literally told you didn't i. f sake etcetera. he says i. f sake etcetera. and he says a of things that we a lot of things like that and we know can't be starmer because know it can't be starmer because he's opinion. he's expressing a clear opinion. yes. so that's how we know yes. and so that's how we know it's him. and a degree of it's not him. and a degree of emotion. that's emotion. exactly. and that's probably why sir simon clarke wants cause he wants to tone it down, cause he doesn't people to think doesn't want people to think that suddenly got passionate. >> well, it's kind important >> well, it's kind of important as that tories step as well that the tories step up and

we're joined now by simon clark, director of the smokers' rights group, forest. the prohibition. this is creeping prohibition. once you introduce that it is very difficult to enforce. in this situation, we will have this ludicrous situation where in ten years, a 29—year—old will be prohibited from buying cigarettes but a 30—year—old will be able to put up ten years but there aren't many 39—year—old will not be able to buy cigarettes but a 40—year—old well. it is crazy and will create a ludicrous situation, infantilised in the population. the ludicrous situation, infantilised in the population-— the population. the compelling arr ument the population. the compelling argument is — the population. the compelling argument is lives _ the population. the compelling argument is lives will _ the population. the compelling argument is lives will be - the population. the compelling | argument is lives will be saved. the population. the compelling i argument is lives will be saved. i am not sure they will. prohibition rarely works. we are infantilised in the population. the