sinjin: potentially. think there is convergence between these asset classes when there is higher spread -- excuse me, higher rate volume issuers can step back and choose what makes most sense to them to fill their financing needs. a lot of it is going to depend on what rate volume does. we agree with the theme that there will be higher dispersion most likely, and that is really driven by on the one hand you have solid credit fundamentals going into 2025, on the other hand you have tight evaluations. to the extent that any one of these asset classes sees more dispersion that tends to instill a little bit of reticence upon issuers going into that market, for various reasons. that might be a bigger driver of which of these asset classes are most capitalized on by the issuer itself. sonali: if we sat here talking a year ago what we would talk about is, leveraged loan markets. to what extent are they going to make private credit more difficult? but apollo has been pioneering a way to make private assets more l