of thorns have a man to jerusalem in recent months and having been to the vatican and to the sistine chapel. i know there are so many artifacts around the world that are important. not just the people who practice catholicism but to all of us, from every walk of life because they symbolize a shared history. i'm wondering now if it is time -- and i want to be delicate with this -- for there to be when the restoration happens, robert, more steel and more concrete. and those things that are present day to protect the artifacts. one thing that impressed me, when you go to the vatican, is that some of that has started to happen. i wonder, does that disturb our faith? does that disturb the journey we are all on to bring it more present-day? >> i'm sort of a traditionalist and architecture. i like the stone. the romans were famous for making arches, and then the gothic cathedrals were famous for their flying buttresses. if you use steel, that's 40 or 60 feet long, you can spread across the roof. but you lose something of the delicate balance of the stones leading up to a keystone, which hold each