do you think that is the kind of -- again, justice skelea says he sees nobody involving politics to compare with the founding fathers. the guys who created the federalist papers, it was a fascinating moment that this guy has been in the supreme court just 25 years, clearly believes there's a malaise in ability and principle. >> i think there is probably in the actual, you know, the body politic. but i think if you look at individual senators like patrick leahy or like olympia snow, there's so many individuals that i admire. i don't know why they can't seem to get things done. but i know that, for instance, senator snow is retiring because she said it's -- it's just too discouraging. >> ho do you think president obama has done? >> well, i think -- i thought it was very interesting that he said he's really concentrated on policy. because that makes sense to me with his character. and one of the things that's come up with this show is to what extent any of these people are political animals. and i have a feeling, for instance, clinton, johnson, maybe nixon, some of these people were real polit