two, out of the clear blue sky i got a telephone call from the smith richardson foundation asking me if i would be interested to write something about how we should be dealing with china and i said yes. so i began in february and at a moment when u.s. policy was very much the same as it had been when i was in the reagan administration in 1982 and that is to say policy was what we call positive engagement and the idea was to negotiate with china and bring them into what we call the global systemti and hope tht economic development was result in china and political liberalization if not democratization. that policy added to change on march the first 2018 when the economist magazine cover story said that the west had made the wrong bet on china and what i've written about is how we made the wrong bet and what we should be trying to do about it. >> host: when do you think -- your titleor says the world turd upside down and when do you think in terms of the u.s. and china relationship things became upside down? >> guest: well, i think beginning in the or it began really as i said at the e

two, out of the clear blue sky i got a telephone call from the smith richardson foundation asking mei would be interested to write something about how we should be dealing with china and i said yes. so i began in february and at a moment when u.s. policy was very much the same as it had been when i was in the reagan administration in 1982 and that is to say policy was what we call positive engagement and the idea was to negotiate with china and bring them into what we call the global systemti and hope tht economic development was result in china and political liberalization if not democratization. that policy added to change on march the first 2018 when the economist magazine

i got a telephone call from the smith richardson foundation asking me if i would be interested to writeng about how she would -- how we should be dealing with china and i said yes. i began in february. at a moment when u.s. policy was very much the same as it had been when i was in the reagan administration in 1982. that is to say our policy was what we called positive engagement. the idea was to negotiate with china and bring them into what we call the global system and hope that economic development would result in china -- in political liberalization if not democratization. on that policy added to change on march the first 2018 when the economist magazine cover story said that the west had made the wrong bet on china. what i have written about is how we made the wrong bet and what we should be trying to do about it. >> your title says the world turned upside down. when do you think in terms of the u.s. and china relationship things became upside down? clyde: it began in the early 1980's when we began to embrace china and try to meld china into the world trading system and into the br