southmark is the best example. but i try to find ways in which libertarian take comes up in american pop culture. >> host: what about the western? >> guest: well, there is a perfect example of the conflict between liberty and authority. treat older the people as if they cannot take care of themselves. come into a small town, run by a corrupt mayor. some kind of group of businessmen. and he says straighten it out. to me there is a kind of paternalism and that. the contrast that deadwood, the sense that people can take care of themselves. not had a complete loss. what i call a perspective. left of themselves people end up in a moral argument. they develop on their own. i found it fascinating out that plays out in the american western. >> host: you see examples in hollywood and popular culture of the social utopianism and authority? >> guest: absolutely. also distal pianism, showing that utopia can turn out to be very bad. i talk about a lot of alien invasions. many of them, there was one about two or three seasons. a