determination and radical nature of gorbachev's reforms if he had not undertaken those reforms of soviet union would do for it seems to me survive possibly for a long time even including the baltic republics after gorbachev started one can imagine a union treaty which would have created a more decentralized union probably as you say without the baltic republics. but without the back burn which it had in the communist party of the soviet union it would have been a very unstable place so i think probably not in the long run archie what do you think about that a noncommunist soviet union could it come into existence again could it be viable. i think it could have been viable without a number of republics certainly without the baltic states but something closer to the european union today than to the old soviet union recover shoaf went through several stages first of all running a shoot a federation into a genuine federation but latterly he was prepared for a much looser kind of union something much more like the e.u. and that i think would have been possible and possibly preferable for russians t

remembers the attempted coup twenty years ago that disappears precipitated the breakup of the soviet union and ushered in a reborn country the failure of the overthrow brought a series of collapse us to communist institutions in the soviet states. cold was the soviet union already on the path to extinction despite a failed coup or could it have been reformed peter lavelle debates this were discussed next on our team. can you start. following the welcome to cross talk i'm peter lavelle a coup that failed to change everything twenty years ago communist party hardliners attempted to derail me help out of a child's efforts to reform the soviet union in the coups aftermath the communist party was banned to be followed by the end of the u.s.s.r. could history have played out differently. to the serbs. to cross-talk the events of august one thousand nine hundred one i'm joined by geoffrey hosking in london he is america's professor of russian history at the university college london in oxford we have archie brown he's america's professor of politics at the university of oxford and indeed no god w

certainly without the baltic states but something closer to the european union today than to the old soviet union recover show went through several stages first of all planning a shoot a federation into a genuine federation but latterly he was prepared for a much looser kind of union something much more like the e.u. and that i think would have been possible and possibly preferable for russians through what has happened because it was clearly in yeltsin's interest to get himself into the kremlin gorbachev vote to deprive russia of its centuries old links with the other countries and to have russians stranded in other countries where they were no longer. equal citizens in many cases it was hardly in the interests of russia because when you think about i mean and then this is something that the russians implemented and russians implemented this for twenty years if they did so many russians will found it on themselves on an on the wrong side of a border and not only russians these sentiments are sufficiently widespread in the crane because a. lot with. probably given the emotions running at the time

of history's darkest chapters as they explore the notorious concentration camps of the former soviet union. the summer of one nine hundred fifty three soviet leader joseph stalin passed away one hundred days ago mosco has sent classified instructions to every corner of the soviet union the biography of a man whose name is often mentioned only in whispers is to be removed from the great soviet encyclopedia and destroyed. state security martial law used to supervise both the u.s.s.r. gulags and the entire repression machine of the soviet union. many episodes of his life and the circumstances of his death are still couched in mystery. this army bunker in central moscow is more than ten meters underground. beriah found himself here soon after his arrest in the kremlin there was no chance of escape or help from the outside. area was interrogated by none other than the soviet union's prosecutor general. one of the initial charges put against him was force participation in widespread political repression. this list contains the names of thirty six people in beers your instruction tourist everybod

this is the headquarters of the soviet union secret police beriah took charge of this government department in one thousand thirty it after moving to the soviet capital from georgia he was originally educated as a builder but unlike his fanatical predecessors he took a more practical approach to. hundred thirty eight and the reign of terror changed on to beria it didn't come to an end but was less massive in scope and it was no focused on particular tasks there it took the gulag system and incorporated it into the soviet economy. one of lot of near lennon's associates of cinco was executed in one nine hundred thirty eight his son anton spent nearly thirteen years in the girl like he knows from his own experience how soviet economic progress was achieved in the one nine hundred thirty s. and the price paid for it he worked at numerous giant construction sites and was almost blind when he left prison camp and each day we worked for twelve hours on end their own trip from the barracks and back behind green exhausted he meets just go out into a plank bed the whole time they were with thoughts a

russia remembers the attempted coup twenty years ago that precipitated the breakup of the soviet union and then a new country the failure of the overthrow brought a series of collapses to communist institutions and the soviet state. will find out how the coup emerged in august ninety ninety one and follow each step of the historic event for russia in our special report coming up next. central moscow moscow's regional k.g.b. headquarters. early morning of august the nineteenth one nine hundred ninety one. this is the officer and. the events of the day the could have reversed the country's history. it was an attempt to depose president mikhail gorbachev put his reforms on hold. tanks and other hardware thirteen moved into moscow. the city's key points have been taken over. that. is the nineteenth nine hundred ninety one monday only in the morning teacher tatiana yakovlev a switch the t.v. on a sort of following picture instead of the usual programming every channels broadcasting tchaikovsky's famous ballet. ok out of which i turned the t.v. on to check the latest news and i was so surpri

returned to a different country should change during those three days in august i defended the soviet union to the laws of bullets that's what i did but failed. the finale of the stand off central moscow ammonium. to felix rohatyn ski the founder of soviet secret police standing in front of k.g.b. headquarters and looked young for a square is pulled down it was a symbol of the beginning of the people. the bright future which the communists had been talking about for seventy years finally became a possibility we could build it with our own hands we were used to the fact that the state was on the evidence that it could break and destroy anyone but this time nothing happened people had risen like a wall we said no enough white. approximately the same time a prosecutor general's office launches an investigation into the role of the coup organizers the plotters tried to pass the blame on to crimean frontier guards. initially the team of investigators of the prosecutor general's office displayed florence then they began dropping hints or urging us to repent and take the whole blame for gorbachev'

and our loss mill tearily going forward. >> the soviet union.she realize -- now this is a lady that's going to -- well, is running to be in charge of foreign policy. and she doesn't realize that it doesn't exist any more, that it dissolved in 1991. the same day bachmann justified her job at the irs. >> a chance to learn about the enemy. >> how many of you love the irs? no. it's time to change it. i went to work in that system because the -- the first rule of war is know your enemy. so i went to the signed to learn how they work because i want it defeat them. >> now, nia, when i ran, i did saturday night live and we were never that funny. but do you think that these guests are going to really matter to the far right voters that she is appealing to and but will it turn off the middle and the more moderate voters in reflect of the primary? >> certainly. you have to look at this because there is becoming a mattern with michele bachmann. she argued that the founding fathers weren't really abolitionist and fought to end slavery. we all know that found

she's worried about the soviet union. even though it died 20 years ago. >>> let me finish tonight with the need for the president to -- this is my idea, big, do something big. we start with some gop doubts about rick perry. michael steele is the former chair of the republican national committee. he's always be our republican national committee chair. and now msnbc analyst, ron regular kban is a political commentator. i want to show you some thoughts from governor perry. here he is going after president obama on jobs today in south carolina. he is hitting the circuit. let's listen. >> the real issue that is president's out there and he was on a jobs tour. this is the president to have united states that has killed more jobs in america than i think any president in the history certainly in my lifetime. [ applause ] i think the only job he cares about is the one he's got. >> of course, the president came into office in the middle of a recession when the country's bleeding jobs, hemorrhaging jobs. take a look at this chart fr