most vocal at a gathering of union, this is a crowd that i can rember, when nafta came about, andill spadeanow carving out -- bill clinton said that they were going to hurt american jobs, now, you can make argument that did not happen, they argue a lot of core union jobs and salaries and benefits went down since then. and they look back to those agreements that started the ball rolling, they still have wons. they look i think to hillary clinton, as partly contributor to those wounds. >> yeah, no, i think that is right. but one thing they have to watch out for is hillary clinton such a front-runner now they probably will not come out in support of biden just because, remember, you know hillary had a hit list in 2008, an enemy's list, you don't want to get on her bad side. neil: there is something to, that but i think, what is going on, vice president, is hedging his bets, saying, i don't know how old he and i think about 112 or 113, but what does he got to lose in. to? >> that is why he is going out and he remembers obama strategy, part of reason that obama won democrat nomination because he