well, today, we are spending the hour with the pulitzer prize winning reporter spencer ackerman, authorthe new book "reign of terror: how the 9/11 era destabilized america and produced trump." the book is based in part on his reporting from afghanistan, iraq, and guantanamo. spencer, it is great to have you back. congratulations on your book. we are talking to you in the midst of this chaos in kabul as thousands of afghans, americans, and other nationals are attempting to flee afghanistan. the taliban have taken over. we chose to begin 20 years ago -- i won't say the beginning because it goes far back from there -- but talk about this moment as the u.s. began bombing and occupying afghanistan, when the taliban basically said they would surrender. and also give osama bin laden over. the u.s. rejected, president bush rejected both. >> this was a central aspect of the war on terror at its inception and foreshadowing of what its implications would be. once we accept the frame that bush offered, war on terror, we were then locked into a struggle not just against al qaeda, the entity culpable

spencer ackerman author of the aclaumd new book, reign of terror, argues the u.s.nd trumpism. he writes, quote, trump recognized that the 9/11 era grotesque subtext, the perception of non-whites as mar audioers, conquerors from hostile foreign civilations what is its engine. the author joins me now. spencer, thanks for joining me this morning. you open the book with the story of oklahoma city bomber timothy mcveigh and how white terrorists have been treated diplomatly than foreign terrorists. i was thinking about that. and friday a man charged with threatening to use a weapon of mass destruction. how different the reaction from politicians and pundit it's would have been if he was a brown dude with a big beer and black flag? >> yeah, well said, mehdi. so first off, there would have been calls to remove him from trial to execute him. there would calls to perhaps detain, possibly without charge. there would have been immediate demands to investigate all of his associates. there would law enforcement going to all of his associates. and then also to their associates. t

spencer ackerman looks at the effects of 9911 on american society in reign of terror. out on the limp journalist andrew sullivan compile edition of his essays over the last 30 years but also been published this week historian benjamin smith examines the evolution of the mexican drug trade in the dope. the state must provide, adam harris of the atlantic consist american colleges and universities have always discriminated against black students. the black allen suggest american should act like they did in the aftermath of 911 and dear america. find these titles this coming week wherever books are sold. watch for many of these authors to appear in the near future on book tv. on our weekly author interview program after words robert woodson argued the 1619 project replaces history with a more polarizing conversion. he was interviewed by harvard university law professor randall kennedy, here's a portion of that. >> of the 1619 a series of essays by black journalists and others led by nicole hannah jones. redefined america's birthday from 1776 to 1619 at the time when slaves

spencer ackerman is a journalist. in his new book -- i spent my vacation reading it.ek. he joins me now. great to have you. >> thanks. >> i have a lot of complicated feelings, as i imagine you do about this moment. one thing that has been interesting is to watch biden's determination here. you could feel the crescendo of pressure growing, extend the deadline, stay a little longer, send more troops in. i was -- i didn't know what he was going to say today. how do you read what is happening and the focus on actually doing the thing and getting out? >> i think it go back to 2009 when biden was president obama's vice president and was a very lonely voice in the obama cabinet against escalation in afghanistan. among the things biden would kind of note to president obama is that none of the assembled generals, admirals and security dignitary who favored the surge in afghanistan had a plausible way of connecting what the purpose of the surge would be, to give the taliban a bloody nose, to resolving the war in afghanistan and as well to fighting al qaeda, the original purpose

spencer ackerman of the daily beast looks at the effects of 9/11 on american society in reign of terror. in out on a limb journalist andrew sullivan compiles a collection of essays over the past 30 years. also published this week historian benjamin smith examines the evolution of the next-- mexican drug trade and the dell. in the state must provide adam harris on the atlantic insist american colleges and universities have always discriminated against black students. army veteran graham allen suggests americans should act like they did in the aftermath of 9/11 in zero america. find these titles this coming week wherever books are sold and watch for many of the authors to appear in the future on the tv. >> weekends we bring you the best in american history and nonfiction books. on the tv atlantic magnate-- magazine staff writer reflects on past and future of what he calls prompts america in his latest book. and on afterwards, conservative podcast ran journalist ben shapiro discusses his new book, "the authoritarian moment" in which he argues the progressive left is pushing an authoritaria

. >> spencer ackerman, whose new excellent book reign of terror is out now, you should absolutely pick up. i've learned so much from reading it and i can't wait to talk to you about, it on our podcast. why is this happening. thank you. spencer >> thank you. >> coming, up house democrats and the standoff delivering the biden agenda, crucial victory today, why the small group of democrats who tried to take, it could be undermining their own midterm political prospects, next. l prospects, next next here. new aspercreme arthritis. full prescription-strength? reduces inflammation? thank the gods. don't thank them too soon. kick pain in the aspercreme. it's time for the biggest sale of the year, on the new sleep number 360 smart bed. it helps keep you effortlessly comfortable by sensing your don't thank them too soon. movements and automatically responding to both of you. and, it's temperature balancing to help you stay comfortable all night. it even tracks your circadian rhythm, so you know when you're at your best. in other words, it's the most energy-building, wellness-boosting, parent-po

elites of both parties deserve blame for this calamity in his new book, "reign of terror," author spencer ackermanrites, "in 2020, i asked stanley mcchrystal, the former joint special operations command and afghanistan war commander, if the war on terror had been worth it 'it would be impossible to argue that it was,' he answered. 'the outcome just hasn't been positive enough to argue that.'" that's not an anti-war activist saying that, that's the former commander of the war in afghanistan saying the 20-year war on terror was a failure. it's like if kevin feige said "honestly, i have no idea what's going on in the marvel cinematic universe none of it makes sense to me i mean, they all have superpowers, but every fight comes down to karate what the hell? right? of course, in reality, the only thing feige has to apologize for is not putting vince vaughn in "loki. you missed a huge opportunity to create some buzz and reunite the greatest comic duo since laurel and hardy. "buddy, buddy, buddy and i say that because there are three of you." [ laughter ] i'm sorry to reference 2005's "wedding crashers.

spencer ackerman, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning and sharing. >>> and stillster issued a stark warning yesterday when it comes to afghanistan. he tweeted this, the humanitarian crisis is just beginning. jihadist terrorists will grow more dangerous and it will take years for our reputation to recover. the former national security adviser joins our conversation ahead on "morning joe." "mornin. washed your hands a lot today? probably like 40 times. hands feel dry? like sandpaper. introducing new dove handwash, with 5 x moisturizer blend. removes germs in seconds, moisturizes for hours. soft, smooth. new dove handwash. welcome to allstate. where you can pay a little less and enjoy the ride a little more. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ now, get new lower auto rates with allstate. because better protection costs a whole lot less. you're in good hands with allstate. click or call for a lower auto rate today. i'm greg, i'm 68 years old. i do motivational speaking you're in good hands with allstate. in addition to the substitute teaching. i honestly feel that that's my calling-- to give bac