the internet will be spo lintered? scott: it will be sponsored. -- splintered. is out of the bag. charlie: people will try to get control of the internet. scott: exactly. geek subcultures will not raise on white flag. -- the white flag. the global subculture is dedicated to open code and will not stop. they are preserving a public space for all of us. hackers are criticized, and of course, a lot of hackers do terrible things. but, there is an underrecognized subculture that keeps this thing alive. faith inair amount of that alibaba doesn't want to be a chinese company. they're building cloud computing centers around the world, not just because they want to sell chinese citizens. google, facebook, all these companies want to be global. one of the reasons it's reacted so strongly to these efforts in encryption in the post snowden. periodhe post-snowden is because of the enormous threat to their income. in some ways, this establishes a space of freedom. charlie: do you think apple is right? scott: apple is absolutely right. ofe rogers came out in favor this the oth