we're with ran rabbi stacey friedman. welcome back rabbi friedman and joann. we are going to end our conversation for this moment in just a little bit. i want to ask you, rabbi, what do you think with the -- what are some of the things that you think clergy might consider to initiate continue this conversation in their particular setting? >> right. i think the answer is twofold. many fold, but i'll start with two things. one is really for us, going back to our sacred text. that is the bible or the tora. and to remind people that our ancestors, our leaders were not perfect and they struggled with darkness. so i think it's important to be very explicit and show that. that none of us is immuned from it. that everyone has their darkness and their pain and our tradition, we say there's nothing as whole as a broken heart. to remind people of that. that they can come present with their broken heart. and secondly, i also believe it's important to be very explicit about the fact that mental illness is something not to be ashamed of, but something that we can share and