-- i thought how on earth was kip lipping's first cousin stanley baldwin? and then it said something about going to stay with his aunt and uncle, the burns jones. and i thought how did that happen? so i did a little research, and i found there was this extraordinary group, and i did what we all do which is i thought, hmm, one day i should do something about that. and then i went on with my life for 15 years. i was a publisher, and i was perfectly happy being a publisher. i had no plans to write a book. and then things changed, and i thought one day, hmm, i am going to do something about that. >> host: were they -- did they live during the victorian era? >> guest: they did, almost precisely. i wrote the book 15 years ago, so if you're going to check on the dates now, that's going to be interesting. one of them was born in 1820, i do remember that. she was one of the younger ones. so, yes, i mean, they all lived from the early part of 19th century. i think one ultimately died in about 1910, '20. she was the last. so one of the things that attracted me was, ap