news conference was typically one of the few times during the year when journalists outside of the russian state media got to directly ask vladimir putin questions. this year, independent and for news publications that left russia after the government made it illegal to accurately cover its invasion of ukraine -- the times, notes, quote, it would have been possible for either a russian or international reporter to detail some of the setbacks in ukraine into ask mr. putin embarrassing questions about them, live on national question television. joining us now is former u.s. ambassador to russia michael mcfaul. he's an msnbc international affairs analyst. ambassador michael mcfaul, we just saw a friendly reporter -- a state television reporter -- questioning vladimir putin. and those who are questions he could not answer. >> that is right. and did you notice how nervous she was, lawrence, about asking that very basic question? but i think it shows that there is an underbelly, a quiet, growing resistance to this war inside russia. it is not rational to express what you really believe to anybody, not to a pollster, not to offend, certainly not to a stranger that calls you up and says, what do you think of the war? that is what polling is in russia. but you see evidence in lots of different places, including, by the way, more and more russians inside russia, watching opposition channels that are broadcasting outside, particularly on youtube. it also just that people inside russia are tired of this war. >> let's listen to more of david let herman's interview with president zelenskyy. >> how can a person take that position that there is no ukrainian? >> [speaking non-english] [speaking non-english] [speaking non-english] >> ambassador, i want to combine both of david let tremendous questions. it vladimir putin were to leave the scene tomorrow, if the population is as brainwashed as president zelenskyy says russians are, how much would change? >> if something happened to putin, eventually the system would collapse. i agree entirely with president zelenskyy. it is not based on anything deep. there is no political party. there's no real ideology. there's not a successor that's been kept. it would not happen overnight, lawrence. it would take some time. but eventually, i think he would see the unraveling of the putin regime. and that is where i somewhat disagree with president zelenskyy. he's right that the majority of russians go along with whatever the president says. but that support is very thin. yes, you have what i call the babushka's inside area, the watch propaganda channels and at 100% supportive of putin -- you then have another demographic. the younger, educated, urban, which are people. they don't support putin. that is 20% or so. but in the middle is a lot of people that just supported because he's the president. but if tomorrow he said, we have won the war, it's time to leave, they would also support that. so, the idea that they are supporting this war with vigor, i think, is wrong. and if it is somebody else besides putin, he is the guy that is the charismatic leader for two decades. some other leader steps into try to do the same, i think the support we dwindle very, very quickly. >> what do you see as the winter months proceed with the conduct of the war? >> what i want to see is the ukrainians go back on the offensive. that's what they say they want to do. i think we should remember what fantastic victories they have had this fall. by most accounts, the russians have now lost 50% of the territory they once seized. what i worry about is that it will be a grinding war with both sides not moving very well. the russians are dug in deeper in the front lines where they are now. and i suspect, tragically, this time next year, we will probably still be talking about this horrific, horrible, illegal invasion of ukraine. >> michael mcfaul, thank you very much for joining us once again. always appreciate it. >> thanks. >> coming up, senator mark kelly's twin brother scott kelly travel to ukraine and met with president zelenskyy last month. scott kelly joins us next. ott kelly joins us next. ♪limu emu & doug♪ it's nice to unwind after a long week of telling people how liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. showtime. whoo! i'm on fire tonight. 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[sfx: coughs] this'll help. vicks vaporub? vicks vaporub's ...medicated vapors go straight to the source of your cough... ...so you can relieve your cough to breathe easier. vicks vaporub. fast-acting cough relief. >> scott kelly is senator mark kelly's twin brother. after cheering on his brothers reelection victory in the arizona senate campaign, assuring democratic control of the senate, scott kelly went to ukraine. scott kelly, like his brother mark, he's a former navy pilot and a former astronaut. scott kelly spent 340 days on the international space station in collaboration with russia and got to know russian astronauts. in late november, scott kelly traveled to ukraine, where he met with president zelenskyy. scott kelly tweeted, arrived in kyiv this morning to see for myself the atrocities committed by russia and the support necessary for ukraine. scott kelly visited a children's hospital in kyiv, where he spoke with victims of russia's attacks and travel to other areas bombarded by russia in the early months of the war, including areas where russians are accused of war crimes. scott kelly tweeted, the depravity of russian destruction has no bounds. joining us now is scott kelly, former astronaut and retired u.s. navy captain. thank you very much for joining us tonight, captain kelly. you have such a unique perspective on this, being the perspective achievable from space looking down on this planet with russian cosmonauts up there with you. are you in touch with any of the russians you were in space with? and you have any chance to talk to them about this? >> first of, all thanks for having me, lawrence. yes, i am in touch with some of them, some of the cosmonauts highways in space with. and i do have the opportunity to talk or, mostly, text with them about this. >> and what did they tell you? do they support vladimir putin's position? >> you know, some of them -- i talk to people, right? one of them -- to cosmonauts. i have some other friends in russia. but one of them feels very much like i do about this, with one big exception. and that is, he is embarrassed. the other one? much different. it's almost like we are talking about two different realities. he clearly has been brainwashed by the russian propagandists and media over a long period of time and is absolutely convinced that they are defending themselves from, how he describes, the nazi's and nato -- despite everything i could do to convince him otherwise, he's not convinced supple. >> you have been in a chain of command. you have been in command yourself. what was your impression of president zelenskyy and the command he has over his fighting forces in ukraine? >> i was very impressed with him. i met with him for about 45 minutes in his office, in the office he would normally use under normal times. certainly, there's a lot of security there, as you would expect. but he was very charismatic. he came across to me as a natural leader. he's very humble, confident, very nice. and he is convinced that they will win this war. he is not sure when. and i believe him. >> you also have ukrainian relatives by marriage, as i understand it. and so you have been getting a flow of information that most of us don't have access to in this. based on your trip, what does ukraine need now going forward? >> well, what president zelenskyy told me what they need most is, right now, as far as humanitarian support is concerned, is generators and the fuel to operate them. because putin realizes he cannot win on a conventional battlefield. so, he has decided to commit more war crimes, terrorize the population, basically try to freeze them into submission over the winter. so, from a humanitarian perspective, that is what they need right now. certainly, weapons, particularly modern weapons, is what he also says they need from war fighting capability -- and he also appreciates everything the american people and the u.s. government and the rest of the free war adult has done for them in supplying the stuff they need to repel this attack on democracy. >> we were surprised by this attack that vladimir putin launched? because, with your own experience, with russians of the russian government, and what to expect from them? >> i was very surprised. in fact, i had conversations with my brother. and i said, i'm just thinking, he's bluffing. there is no way he would choose to invade his neighboring country, a people that, a lot of them, speak the same language, similar cultures, a european democratically elected nation. i just thought it was a big bluff. and my brother, he had some other information, perhaps. but he believed otherwise. and unfortunately, he was right. >> i shared your feelings. i felt the same way. it felt like a big bluff to me. because it simply made no sense. and we are seeing the result now every day of an invasion that made no sense. what is your expectation of ukraine's ability to fight through the winter months? >> to just go back on the make no sense thing, i think from putin's perspective, it made sense to him in some kind of weird convoluted way, in that he and this democratically elected nation, a free nation, on his border, where the economy was prospering and moving forward, and he just couldn't -- i think -- have his people looking at that thinking, we are a much bigger country with more natural resources, more human capital. we should be doing a lot better than ukraine. so, i think that was probably part of his calculus. and after being there and seeing the spirit of the ukrainian people, despite everything that they have had to endure, and be put through, i am absolutely convinced that they will see this through the winter and beyond. and i think anything that putin does to try to demoralize them is only going to make them fight back harder. >> my point about makes no sense was, what i meant was, they can't win. russia cannot go in there and just grab that country. and that was obvious to me before it started. i just assumed vladimir putin knew the same thing >> i think their form of government is a kleptocracy. so, the guy that buys the tires for the army, he's going to buy the cheapest tires he can and pocket the rest of the money. in my experience there, they also have the system where they don't take personal responsibility or accountability. if you, in the russian system, if you make a mistake, it's not like, well, i screw that up, what did i learn from it? the immediate reaction is, whose fault is it? or you don't even talk about it and you try to hide it. so, i think that's part of the problem too. and putin has probably been a sled along the way, that his army was much more powerful than he even realized. so, he took a gamble. and he has lost already and he's going to lose even more. >> captain scott kelly, thank you very much for sharing your unique insights about this with us tonight. we really appreciate it. >> thank you, lawrence. >> thank you. we will be right back. we will be right back. ♪ (dog barks) ♪ silverado zr2, trail boss, and custom trail boss. because adventure is everywhere. i have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. now, there's skyrizi. ♪things are getting clearer♪ ♪i feel free to bare my skin♪ ♪yeah, that's all me♪ ♪nothing and me go hand in hand♪ ♪nothing on my skin♪ ♪that's my new 4 people achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months. in another study, most people had 90% clearer skin, even at 4 years. and skyrizi is just 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. ♪it's my moment, so i just gotta say♪ ♪nothing is everything♪ serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections, or a lower ability to fight them, may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to. ♪nothing is everything♪ now's the time to ask your doctor about skyrizi, the number one dermatologist prescribed biologic. learn how abbvie could help you save. get refunds.com powered by innovation refunds can help your business get a payroll tax refund, even if you got ppp and it only takes eight minutes to qualify. i went on their website, uploaded everything, and i was blown away by what they could do. getrefunds.com has helped businesses get over a billion dollars and we can help your business too. qualify your business for a big refund in eight minutes. go to