. >> and stephanie cutter won. >> no, robert gibbs won. >> the other guys were actually well known. i'm not sure anybody but the insiders knew who she was. >> they were all competing for jobs. >> : you think that's what it was, they were all looking past the election. >> i think it's a huge thing. i think in 2008, i mean, there was a much more -- okay, we want to get this guy to washington, maybe there's -- maybe we want to go there with him, and then we can start competing for white house jobs or what have you. >> but this is a gravy train. >> this is a gravy train. and, look, i mean, people -- they ran against wall street, they did great battle with bp during the oil spill in 2010, financial crisis, peter orzack went right to city group as soon as he left the white house. i mean, they're all endorsed, it's run very, very, very well. again, this is what the obama administration was supposedly running against. >> but again, the incest that you're referring to, the cross-poll nation, it hasn't always been the case. it's just the last couple of administrations where it became epidemic