in other words, stephen douglas d. term and that there were enough combinations of votes in the senate to pass the different parts of the compromise but not all at once. so the past six separate bills using different combinations. so the lesson is persuasion is necessary and imperative to sway the downfall but if you don't do the numbers coming you won't succeed. these men together cindy obsequy to this gimmick we are speaking with fergus bordewich authors of "america's great debate" stephen a. douglas and the compromise of the union. thank you. >>> i think the writers institute is very important with a culture. we are a culture of words and voices. words are key to our imagination and capacity to envision things. we ourselves are not completely tied to print on the page. but i think that there is no other art form so readily

it's been a stephen douglas' position on the war? >> douglas favored the war. he was a democrat. he does not trust poke at all. and before the start of the war he says i don't have any idea. none of us have any idea what the president is up to. but he supports the war. he doesn't give any big speeches. i [inaudible] >> and historical memory while the war faded. the first reason why the war faded from memory was because the civil war followed it not many years later and the civil war at all of the early battles in the u.s.-mexico war, but also kind of a message that america could believe in, which was that we were reunifying the country and talking about not southerners here. is it yours in the war were able to craft a narrative that is extremely uplifting and has remained uplifting. so as they were germanic and exciting work. it was a much bigger war. many more people were killed and many were worried off. the other important reason why people forgot about the mexican war if i do not think it fits the narratives americans tell themselves about military involvement. if you think a

was volunteering to fight for the war before it started, he was repeatedly writing letters to stephen douglas. even though douglas was a democrat. and he already had a lot of military experience. he had bought in the black hawk war. and he actually was in charge of the mormons and state of illinois. he was a big military guy, a political guy, and he really wanted to buy mexico. he wrote letters to newspapers saying that this is our possible opportunity to gain california for the united states. and i will be the front of that movement. and in fact, he was. now, pardon is excited about the possibility of taking a lot of mexican territory and manifest destiny. when he gets to mexico, his views change pretty quickly and dramatically. when he gets to mexico, he writes about potential silver mines. and he says that the silver mines here are supposed to be the richest and mexico. and were only abandoned why the ignorance of the mexicans. and he said it would only require a little skill to make these valuable. but the longer he stayed there, the longer you like it. in december of 1846, just a few mon

repeatedly writing letters to stephen douglas. and he already had a lot of military experience, flat in the black hawk war, an officer in that and he wasn't charged that taking the mormons and the state of illinois. a big military guy and political guy. he really wanted to fight mexico. he wrote letters to newspapers say, this is our greatest possible opportunity to gain california for the u.s. if war is declared, will be at the front of the movement committee was. now, he is a very, very a chat about the possibility of taking a lot of mexican territory. a big proponent of manifest destiny, but his views changed quickly and dramatically. when he first gets to mexico heat writes about potential silver mines that he has heard about and says, the silver mines here are supposed to be the richest and mexico, and we are only abandoned by the ignorance of the mexicans. it will only require a little skill to make these valuable. really excited, and he can see mexican american hands. the lottery's bins, the less he likes. in early december

know, lincoln at one point in the lincoln-douglas was disappointed when douglas made a particularly racist speech. he said, "stephen knows better than this. he's blown the moral lights out." and that moved me enormously when i read that. the job of the president is both to make the compromises necessary to actually have things happen in a democracy which means compromising and at a slower pace than anybody would necessarily like, people who understand what needs to be changed. at the same time he has to keep telling us where we're going, what we're trying to arrive at. and i think that obama has done an astonishing job of doing that over and over and over again, of reminding us that government is a good thing, of reminding us that we're a country where people have to work together, that we're not a group of insanely isolated individuals who happen to live on the same, you know, piece of land and you know, that we share responsibility for one another because without that shared responsibility our own lives are destroyed. i mean, i think he's articulated beautifully what the far horizon needs to be. and he's asking p

stephen a. douglased journalists at the time as a steam engine and bridges, very short, ferocious northern democrat come youngest man in the senate, 35, the marco rubio of his day perhaps, did what clay had not done. he did the numbers. in other words, what stephen a. douglas determined was that there were enough combination of votes in the senate to pass the different parts of clay's compromise, but not all at once. so they passed separate bills. using different combinations. so the lesson is really persuasion is necessary to persuade the doubtful. but if you don't do the numbers you won't succeed. persuade and the numbers you have the chance but in these two men together symbiotically did it spent we're speaking with fergus bordewich, author of "america's great debate." thank you. >> thank you. >> with one month left in 2012, many publications are putting together their year end list of notable books. booktv will feature several of these lists focusing on nonfiction selections. these nonfiction titles