an's he's artie ridden an essay about this, comparing frederick douglass and stephen douglas. called the black douglas and the white douglas. there were more relationships and connections between those two then i ever realized. frome lifted shamelessly his article in my forthcoming book. lastly, joe murphy, who helped us organize this conference. organizerwas a prime of the conference at cuny four years ago. the cunys phd at graduate center. he is currently a postdoc fellow over the seer at the new york historical society. he is a scholar of anti-slavery politics and is himself writing neither a slave " political: and teh rise of anti-slavery nationalism." josh will speak on the theme of 1850's populism, economics, and white supremacism. each person gets 15 minutes. then we open it up to you. don't be shy. will -- pamela: thank you, david. i want to return to a question that civil war historians used to argue about in the 1980's, and that was the nature or character of the republican appeal. the contributors to this debate, all agree that political ideology is a central featur

for five takees, you would always the side of stephen douglas because douglas was always about passion. he was about shaking that huge mane of hair, but if you listen to them for half an hour you would be taken by lincoln. even though lincoln spoke in tone ofh, reedy voice, nasal -- nasal tone of voice he set things out with a hook. once he got that hook in your mouth all he had to do was real that thing in -- reel that thing again. he would state the case in a way that was logically irresistible. ent for logic and lining things up. he was not a man of passion. once said thaton his head and rolled his heart tyrannically. in anld be eloquent extremely reasonable way. when you look at the second , butural, it is eloquent it is eloquent and very logical ways. if we assume, if we understand, if god is like this, if we see , thewar as the payment drawing of blood through the the unrequitedr 250 years of labor. for every drop of blood drawn by the lash, that his eloquence, but also logic. when you listen to it, you can't resist, because he has you. >> it is logic, but it is also -- i

in his speeches of 1857 and 1858, abraham linktone -- lincoln group this with stephen douglas, his political rival in illinois, and claimed that those men had produced a phony version of history in which the declaration had no universal significance. he expanded upon these attempts to make the declaration seem historical rather than a living document. douglas suggested all men are created equal, and that meant "british subjects on this continent were equal to british cut -- subjects for and residing in great britain." but this sent lincoln into a rage, and here is what he said. i had thought the declaration contemplated be improvement in the condition of all men everywhere, but no. it merely was adopted for the purpose of justifying the colonists in the eyes of civilized world from drawing their religions -- in legions from the british crown and dissolving the connection with their mother country." why, that object having been affected some 80 years ago, the declaration is of no practical use now -- mere rubbish. this is from june of 1857. he basically tells people not to bother going to the

the strange person i would put berlin, andn -- probably stephen douglas, he realized what was happening in the election of 1860. he began to really work very hard to keep the south from c seating -- seceding and actually sat near lincoln at the inauguration. had he lived, he probably would have been a force for something very positive, more positive than the racism he is associated with during the next some years. >> how did you figure out what to leave out? times, i felty every sentence in the book of bookshad a shelf written about it. then when you have somebody like lincoln, you realize there is a presidential library dedicated to him. there is a huge amount i was leaving out all of the time. what i decided to leave out was categories -- didn't fall into two categories. i wanted to be responsible for the history i felt i had been contracted to tell. i can't leave out certain things. i am not going to leave out say the gettysburg address, for anmple, because it is such important moment for language, for the work, for so many things, for lincoln himself. it had to fall into that catego

if you listened to lincoln and stephen douglas for five minutes, you would always take the side of douglas. because douglas was always about passion. he was about shaking that huge mane of hair. about stamping his feet. but if you listened to them for half an hour, you would be taken by lincoln. because lincoln, even though he spoke in this high, reedy, nasally tone of voice, he always set things out like bait on a hook. logically speaking, once he got that hook in your mouth, all he needed to do afterwards was real the thing in. and you were his. he would state the case in such a way that it was absolutely logically irresistible. he had that bent for logic. for lining things up. he was not a man of passion. not a man of emotion. herndon once said that his head ruled his heart tyrannically. he was not a man of emotional appeal. he could be eloquent, but eloquent in an extremely reasonable way. when you look at the second inaugural, it is eloquent, but it is eloquent in very logical ways. if we assume -- if we understand -- if god is like this -- if we see this war as the payment, the drawi

douglas fir. right. ( laughter ) what is going on in this photo right now? >> you had me so nervous. >> stephen i was like, is he really going to ask me about my dating life right no? >> stephen: what's going on in this photo. you look like you're about to plant a wet kiss on this tree. >> we got to second base in that one. that was a big moment no, i love christmas -- >> stephen: it's not going to last. in january, you're literally going to kick her to the curb. >> that's good. >> stephen: thank you. >> that's a good joke. >> stephen: thank you very much. thanks very much. yeah. >> credit where credit is due. >> stephen: year, sure, yeah. please promise me you're wearing projection. okay. now-- see are the kinds of questions you couldn't ask when you worked for disney. your bro joe is engaged to sanza stark. >> that's the character's name. >> stephen: sophie turner. do you watch "the game of thrones?" >> i love that. >> stephen: why did ed sheer an get to be in "game of thrones." why no nick jones? >> good question. >> stephen: i would enjow you being murdered by arias stark. >> i would be hon