the railroad is clinical illinois civil so he worked with a fellow named stephen douglas, his great rivalto get this done and the only way legislature passes massive infrastructure plan and then promptly, when bust. this undercapitalized and the veil had to take some time because they didn't have t the money to hiree irish laborers to get paid almost nothing to dig it by hand. that was something that had to be done in order to open up chicago from the great lakes and the rest of illinois to global markets. lincoln's officer leaving him paid for it and it was fairly successful inn convincing people that should be done and he wanted to put rural farmers and anybody who is not living your big city or saltwater port on equal footing with everyone else and how you do this pretty will you create transportation routes and you build infrastructure to get peoplepo there. and so lincoln it was fairly successful as a young assembly man but what was more important is that he introduced the concept based on henry clay's american system that if you build infrastructure, he would create economic progres

material and found something very interesting that he said literally in the first debate with h stephen douglas 1858 he s running for senator at the time against douglas. douglas had controlled the illinois democratic party and at that time senators were not directly elected by the state legislature so he became the senator so what happened was lincoln in talking about slavery made another argument and this was during the first debate. he said every man has a right to earn his own and i'm paraphrasing but. to be on an equal footing with everyone. so this is his view of economic progress that you have a right to offer your labor for pay, you have the opportunity to ascend the economic ladder. how do you avoid being this back woodsman all of your life. this is part of the american system that we have kind of grown up to learn but there's more to it than that. this is another side plot in the whole story that really during his i wouldn't call it exile with his estrangement from politics which lasts roughly from the time he leaves the general assembly to roughly 1854 when douglas passes the nebrask

ironically were stephen douglas got his start, he is kind of a father of what we call the engineering schools in the state college system some things like that. >> what do you believe president lincoln would have achieved if he would not have been able to serve out the term? >> the low hanging fruit is he would've completed reconstruction. and of course, that led to the jim crow era and some really awful times in our history. so lincoln would've witnessed the passage and he would've taken it a step further and ensure that there was political equality and voting rights. we generally credit him for being the great inspiration of the civil rights laws of the 60s, i think that he would have been able to see that through and add to it as well. he is definitely the soul of all of those laws. >> how do you interpret the canal system and the rail system in the stages of development? >> that is a really fascinating reston and it didn't take long to determine the history because what needed to happen for railroads to take off his they had to cut a lot of trees. and with that came improvement fr

and there that was facilitated by the citedat lincoln champion along with stephen douglas and even more importantly, the illinois central railroad which really was built to supplement what was going up and down the canals becomes the longest railroad in the world by 1850. and eventually goes from the northwest tip of illinois all the way to new orleans but not until after the civil war and becomes a major transit route. during the civil war and so keep those two things in mind. these are two ms developments in the history of the country, the midwest, and links the eastern markets to the western markets to theke southern part of his globalization in a very small sense but in a very growing sense printed now what happens when the civil war comes long will we know what lincoln says, we knew about the speech and we know about the lincoln douglas debates but it started to go into some of the material have a something very interesting that he said. literally the first with 1858 illinois he was running for senator at the time against douglas. douglas had controlled the illinois democratic part

some of the material i found something very interesting that he said in the first debate with stephen douglas had controlled the illinois and democratic party and at that time the senators were not directly elected and they were reflected by state legislator jim legislature, so what happened was that in talking about slavery he made another argument, and this is during the first debate and he said every man has a right to earn his own bread and i'm paraphrasing, equal footing with everyone. so this is his view of economic progress that you have a right to offer your labor for pay and the opportunity to assume the economic ladder use of those words, how do you move up and avoid being this backwoodsman all your life doomed to hardscrabble farming. well, this is part of the american system that we have tried to. grown-ups learn in our history, but there's more to it than that. there is something more exciting than this is another side in the whole story that really during his sort of i would not call it exile, but his estrangement from politics, which lasts from the time to roughly 1854 when dou

was in illinois, which is kind of a racist environment and he was running for offers against stephen douglasou can cherry pick certain things he said at the time to sound quite backward and forth, but i really surprised by his sincere closeness to african-americans that stretched from springfield when he lived in the neighborhood where w where there were some 20 african-americans through this presidency where frederick douglass who met him in the white house and sojourner truth, the african-american feminist and martin delany, a real radical and med him and they found him really the least prejudiced person they had met and they were quite honest about that, and so it kind of helped for me to understand why he does become the first president to publicly endorse the vote for african-americans. >> thank you for that answer 'the next question from martha for professor varon, the question what did researching and writing for your book illuminate for you the endeavor of changing heartses and minds in a moment of polarization? >> so, i think that this -- in a sense brings us back to lincoln. lincol

he used the word douglas is him and douglas is him was the possible spread, that threatened spread of slavery to the west that was opened up by stephenen he called for popular sovereignty in the western territories . lincoln puts his foot down and said we have to stop douglas is and that's what we have to concentrate on and he did that so marvelously throughout the civil war and finally what was initially hardly an award that reserved the union and liz was saying earlier for deliverance, became an award specifically to rid of slavery which fortunately lincoln lived to see with the passage of the 13th amendment. it had passed congress just a few months before he was assassinated so but he did become the first president to publicly endorse the vote for african-americans. so one thing that helped him a lot was poetry. he loved poetry and on april 9 1865 when he was on the boat from virginia to washington, that was the day lee surrendered to grant and everyone on the boat was saying in effect mission accomplished. this is great, we won. he preferred to read poetry fora few hours and it was poetry about death . poetry, he was thinking per

ironically in the same town for stephen douglas was in illinois, it was kind of the father of the moralct and what we call state college systems, engineering schools. >> do we have a what if question, what you believe president lincoln would have achieved if hee had been able to serve out his second term? >> i think that's one of our most essential questions asked today. the low hanging fruit for me is that he would have completed reconstruction and had he lived even longer, he wouldn't have abandoned it in 1870s and of course that led to the horrible jim crow era and lynchings, really awful times in history. lincoln would have follow through, he would have witnessed the passage of the 13th, 14th and 15th amendment and would have taken it further and in short there was political equality, complete voting rights and generally we credit him for being in the inspiration of the great society programs, civil rights laws of the 60s so i think he would have been able to see that through and add to it. he was definitely the sole of those laws. >> i'm curious, how would you explain or interpret

here and there particularly in his early speeches which was kind of a racist environment against stephen douglasingfield when he lived in the neighborhood where there were some 20 african-americans right through the presidency and sojourner truth, the african-american feminist and-a martin delaney is beyond black lives matter but a real radical and they found him the most prejudice person they had met and they were quite honest about that h so it kind of helps for e to understand why he does become the first president to endorse the vote for african-americans. >> thank you so much for that answer. the next question is for you. what did researching and writing the book illuminate about the changing hearts and minds and the polarization? >> i think that in a sense this brings us back to lincoln who put forth the vision of the reunion that grand would eventually take up after the disastrous presidency of andrew johnson in which he attempted to blend a sort of desire of commitment and principle. we see him midway through the war promulgated a policy of amnesty to confederates who seem ready to chang

that was the possible spread, the threatened spread of slavery to the west that was opened up by stephen douglasled for the popular sovereignty in the western territories. lincoln put his foot h down and said we have to stop douglas and that's what we have to concentrate on. and he did that so marvelously throughout the civil war. finally, what was initially the war to preserve the union and as was said earlier for deliverance became an award specifically tod get rid of slavery, which fortunately, lincoln lived to see with the passage of the 13th amendment. it passed congress on just a few months before he was assassinated. so, he did look and then became the first president to publicly endorse the vote for african americans. so, and one thing that helped him a lot was poetry. he loved poetry and on april 9th, 1865 when he was on a asboat from virginia to washington, and that was the day that lisa rented a grand and everybody was saying in effect mission accomplished. we wanted. he preferred to read poetry for a few hours and was poetry about death. it spoke to him and he was thinking perhaps ab

then he turns it around as you suggest say he says i am not jealous of stephen douglas for all the success that he has achieved and he ends on a positive note. so he does turn it around. many times, lincoln paused in writing these notes and said my goodness and then takes it in a different direction. >> you just remindedci me that when i see lincoln's depressions and he had number of them sometimes his friends took things away from him. positively he wanted to make a difference in the world before he left. so again, that shows positiveness that brought him out of the depression melancholy that he could continue on with his life and work and not do away with it because his deep depression at the time. i'm glad you reminded me of that. another thing that is nice about the book by the way is each chapter has a preface that shows him at the time so that's another part people can enjoy, at the time of failure and what he looked like at that time. you write that lincoln embodied the ideal of the self constructed man. please explain that and how it applied. daniel walker howell argues persuasivel

it's pretty negative and then he turns it around as you suggest and he says i'm not jealous of stephen douglas success he's achieved and on a very positive note that he wants what he calls the oppressed of my species to be lifted up. that's what michael is so he doesn't turn around. many times we could probably pause in writing these notes, oh my goodness and takes it in a different direction. >> when iy see lincoln's oppression and he had a number of them sometimes where it spreads to kuwait, bridges, they are fearful of him from taking his own life. why didn't he? becausee positively, he wanted o make a difference in the world before he left it so again, that shows positiveness that brought him out of melancholy that continues on with his work and not do away with it. another thing is each chapter has a purpose meaning in lincoln image that shows him at the time of the note what he looked like so that's another part people can see lincoln, a time of failure and what he looked like at that time. we are speaking of lincoln's character, he right that lincoln embodied the idea, please explain th

is pretty negative and then he turns itow around as you suggest so he says i'm not jealous of stephen douglascess he's achieved and he ends on a positive note that he wants what he calls the oppressed of my species to be lifted up, that's what michael is so he doesn't turn it around, i think many times lincoln paused in writing please notes and save oh my goodness and takes it in a different direction. >> you just reminded me when i see lincoln's oppression, and he had numbers of them, sometimes friends took away knives and scissors from him in fear of him taking his own life. why didn't he do that? because positively he wanted to make a difference in the world before he left it so again, that shows positiveness bringing him out of depression melancholy that he could continue on with his life and work and cannot do away with it because depression of the time. i'm glad you reminded me of that. the other thing nice about this book, he has a we can image that showed him at the time of the note he looked like part can't enjoy and can see, lincoln and what he looked like at that time so we are see

this is pretty negative and then he turns around, as you suggest so he says i'm not dollars of stephen douglas success he's achieved and ends on a positive note that he wants what he calls the oppressed of my species to be lifted up, that is michael so he doesn't turn it around, many times lincoln probably pause writing these notes and said oh my goodness takes it in a different direction. >> you reminded me when i lincoln's oppression, and he had numbers of them, they were fearful of him taking his own life. why didn't he do this? positive of the he wanted to make a difference in the world before he left it so that shows positiveness that brought him out of depression and melancholy that he could continue on with his life and work not get away with it because ofbe his depression at the time. the other thing is that each chapter has a purpose, you lincoln image that shows him at the time of the note what he looked like so that's another part can enjoy and can see lincoln at time of failure and what he looked like at that time but we are speaking of lincoln's character, you write that ", self c

and then he turns it around as you suggest -- self-pity -- i have no, i'm not jealous of stephen douglas all the success he has achieved he ends on a very positive note, that he wants what he calls the oppressed of my species to be lifted up. that's what my goal is. he does turn it around. i think many times lincoln probably paused in writing these notes and said oh, my goodness, and then takes it in a different direction. >> you just reminded me that when i see lincoln's depressions, and he had numbers them sometimes words friends took waveguides insisted from him, there were fearful of him taking his own life, why didn't he do that? because positively he wanted to make a difference in the world before he left it. >> yes. >> so again that shows positiveness that brought in out of depression, melancholy, that he could continue on with his life and work in not do away with it because of his deep depression for time. i'm glad you reminded me of that. another thing that's nice about this book is that each chapter has the preface, meaning a lincoln image that shows him at the time of the not