joining us now, stephen roach, senior fellow at yale university. some opinions when it comes to bitcoin. [laughter] yvonne: thank you for joining us. you mentioned that bitcoin is a dangerous specular bubble -- speculative bubble. stephen: i said that when it was $12,000. now, it is 50% higher, and i cannot underscore enough that it is not a debate about the intrinsic value of blockchain cryptocurrencies, which over time will probably prove to be beneficial and lasting. this is a security that was selling for less than $1000 at the start of the year, and is now up 17 fold. the line is vertical. vertical lines are not sustainable in financial markets, whether it is nasdaq or any of the other well-known bubbles that we have seen in the last 10 years. bitcoin is hardly going to be an exception. yvonne: given what we have seen in the trading activity with bitcoin future so far -- i know it is very early. does it signal to you that perhaps these decentralized cryptocurrencies are just not ever going to be mainstream? stephen: no, it does not tell me any