stepien eebs objection.me he's subpoenaed because of two documents he sent which shows him commenting on press reports about this matter after it was already done. so obviously they're saying the implication is he wasn't involved in this in any way. they're not referencing the other document you also turned up under subpoena in which he was sent information about the shutdown while it was ongoing. do you think it's possible this is, like, a three's company plot, this is a big misunderstanding and once we get on the same page about the facts it will be resolved? >> it could be. >> yeah. >> i think the key element here is the facts. let's get to the facts. let's get to the documents. if there's absolutely nothing untoward going on here, if this is just a big misunderstanding, then what's the harm in allowing the kmcommittee to see the documents and have the committee make the determination on its own? we want to get to the facts so this can't happen again. we're not a law enforcement agency. so it seems that t

so take like bill stepien, for instance. bill stepien is subpoenaed by this legislative committee, but the christie reelection campaign has been subpoenaed by the u.s. attorney's office. so now bill stepien was the campaign manager for that reelection campaign. so as far as we know, he personally hasn't been subpoenaed by the u.s. attorney, but the organization he was running has been. from a legal standpoint, thing is some concern here on the part of these lawyers that, hey, you don't want be exposed to the same questioning from two different panels. so one of the questions this raise series the question that has been out there the whole time and is there going to come a point when the u.s. attorney for new jersey steps in and basically said when it comes to stepien, when it comes to bridget kelly and the whole investigation, i've got this. so far he has given this committee the green light. but that question is still out there. >> but we don't know whether that will happen or when that will happen. but we do know, steve, t

i see the whole loop here where stepien is obviously involved in this punishment of the mayor. he knows all that is going on. he is laughing about it. he is enjoying it. he is part of it. it's not his attitude, it's fa that he is involved in what look likes a cabal, and the governor says it's just his attitude i don't like. wait a minute. whose government is this? >> chris, for governor christie to get mad with anyone because they referred to someone as an idiot already doesn't pass the laugh test. you just looked at the clips at the beginning. that was the way he talked about people. so why wouldn't he expect his aides to talk that way, and if they did, what's the big deal? we still have not just the legislative investigation that we talked about with citing kelly for contempt and other subpoenas, what we won't see much of is the criminal investigation where -- remember patrick fitzgerald investigating scooter libby. >> right. >> he gathered a loft information. it didn't come out in hearings. it didn't even leak. it wasn't produced until a trial there really are two tracks goi

stepien and miss kelly's objections to the subpoenas were invalid. and compelling them to turn over those documents that were called for in the subpoenas. if bill stepien and bridget kelly do not comply, now that the legislature renewed their call for the documents and said the objections are not valid and must comply, if bridget kelly and bill stepien do not comply, it's likely they will be held in contempt and then they will get referred for prosecution. that's what happened when david wildstein invoked his fifth amendment rights to not testify to the legislature. mr. wildstein has been referred for prosecution on contempt charges. as his lawyer continues to seek immunity for him from those and other charges. he says he will sing like a bird if he gets immunity from everyone. but for chris christie's former campaign manager and former deputy chief of staff, it is not just that they are refusing to testify, like david wildstein, they are refusing to even hand over documents. yes, david wildstein is refusing to talk, but he also handed over 908 pages

stepien ran the show in the senator's words.in the e-mails talking about mayor mark sokolich, calling him an idiot. he's a subject of a subpoena. he said he will not testify and refusing to comply with the subpoena on constitutional grounds. he's saying he has the constitutional right against self-incrimination and complying with the subpoenas would be self-incrimination and violate his fifth amendment rights. how do you interpret that? >> what i found interesting, i'm not a legal expert so i defer to the senator here. to me, i thought there was news in the statement from stepien's lawyer. consider the special circumstances that stepien is facing if he's not only been subpoenaed by the legislative committee, but the u.s. attorney is looking into the bridge closings and subpoenaed chris christie's re-election committee. >> which he ran. >> which he ran. he's part of that. his lawyer said in a statement that not only is there a state legislative investigation going away, there's a federal grand jury investigation going under way.

that announcement by bill stepien happened late in the day on friday. friday was also, of course, when we got that vaguely worded sort of cryptic letter from the attorney for david wildstein. the port authority official who's at the center of the lane closings. "the new york times" got ahold of this letter in which mr. wildstein's attorney mostly makes the case to a lawyer at the port authority that the port authority should pay mr. wildstein's legal fees. also in this letter mr. wildstein's attorney wrote a strange passive tense sentence that brought front-page headlines across the country. "evidence exists as well tieing governor christie to having knowledge of the lane closures during the period when the lanes were closed contrary to what the governor stated publicly in a two-hour press conference." that happened on friday and then the weekend, it got even weirder. what happened this weekend that made it, go splash cold water on your face and read the newspaper again bizarre time this weekend was the way that governor christie's office responded priv

the people who have invoked their fifth amendment rights are stepien and kelly. the committee investigating the scandal filed lawsuits against bill stepien and bridgette kelly. these are the civil actions they filed. if they continue to refuse to hand over documents they could be held in contempt which would be a matter of criminal prosecution against them. they are big heavy dense legal documents, these are the court filings against bill stepien and bridgette kelly today. it's legalese, but at times they readily pot boilers, this is the one from chris christie's campaign manager. the committee already has evidence demonstrating that mr. stepien received information related to the reassignment of access lanes, even while that reassignment was ongoing, and not only after it happened as mr. stepien corn tends. oh, really? in the other one, in the bridgette kelly civil action today. as the person who authored that e-mail saying it was time for traffic problems in fort lee, miss kelly certainly has relevant information about the subject matter of the committee's inve

>> well, i've been in touch with stepien's lawyer, kevin marino, and in touch with other lawyers for christie allies who have been subpoena preponderance of the evidence they're looking that the in an interesting way. they think the state legislative committee investigating the bridge scandal, they're questioning the oversight authority of this committee. that's why you're seeing a lot of christie aides taking the fifth amendment, refusing to provide documents. as much as the state legislative committee is getting stalled what i'm paying attention to as a reporter is the ongoing federal investigation. the u.s. attorney may be looking into this at a deeper level. i think today also you're seeing christie aware of these investigations even though he did not adretsz it. about the tone of this, my take-away from watching this inside is you saw more low-key christie today, not necessarily more humble but someone aware of the swirling controversy around him sand trying to directly focus on his strengths. >> david, let me ask you about bridget kelly in particular as we talk about top aides

now we know it was stepien who used the captain america line.i mean, foye is an appointee of governor cuomo in new york, a democrat, the way these things break down in the port authority. the chairman goes to new jersey, the executive director goes to the -- goes to new york, new york is the democratic governor, and there had been tensions -- aside from democratic/republican tensions, i think the normal new york to new jersey tensions. i just want to mention one other thing that was supposed to take place today, which is that the chief counsel for the legislative committee was interviewing the ft. lee mayor behind closed doors. this is the fact-gathering session of the inquiry. and that probably is more significant than any of these in particular e-mails at this point. >> we await the readout on mark sokolich's fact-gathering moment today. michael isikoff, thanks for your time. >> thank you. >>> biden 2016. i said it. biden 2016. it is not a foregone conclusion, but it's also not an afterthought. politico magazine's glen thrush discusses his new

bill stepien nearly lost in the wash of wildstein news on friday is what is happening with christie's former campaign manager. christie severed ties because he says he lost faith in his judgment following bridge-related e-mails following the bridge scandal. his lawyer on friday requested that the legislative subpoena which seeks a wide array of documents from him including e-mails, well, he wants it withdrawn. bridget anne kelly. in late january, the former deputy chief of staff who christie famously said he fired for lying to him changed lawyers. her original lawyer was known to be in governor christie's orbit. not the new one. joining me is loretta weinberg who was co-chair of the legislative select committee investigating the george washington lane closures, and bob ingle who writes about politics and is co-author of "chris christie: the inside story of his rise to power." when you're up there in jersey, imagine all these people out there lawyered up now, especially wildstein, and of course i imagine bridget kelly's got a top flight lawyer, and bill stepien. they're all trying to a

stepien's counsel. and we expect that ultimately we'll get these documents.ss has to work itself out. >> what will you do next? contempt charges? what happens next? >> well, our next step is to advise them that we insist on the production. we don't have any expectation based on the letter we received today that that's going do it. so we're going to consult with counsel and take the next appropriate legal steps that the committee feels is going to result in us getting the documents. look, i understand why their attorneys are making the objections they're making. we just don't believe that ultimately those objections really stand up to scrutiny, and that the documents are important for the committee's investigation. they help answer a very basic question, which is why on earth would bridget kelly send the e-mail that she did. it doesn't make sense. somebody else had to have been involved in nose discussions. we just don't know who. well don't know for what purpose, and we would like to find out. >> in rejecting the subpoena demand, bill stepien's lawyer wrote t

. >> bill stepien and bridge kelly. >> bill stepien is rejecting the subpoena. my question to you is why. there's still this question that people have there might it be something to hide no matter how vo sif i have from usually the governor denies it. >> anyone who says they know why bill stepien or anyone else is pleading the fifth or fourth amendment, you'd better be his an lawyer. i don't know why. but i'll say this. there's the legal process, the legal court system. you have every right to do that constitutionally. if you're the lawyer, you may say listen, let's work out a deal. if the court of public opinion, let's not kid ourselves, and christie knows this, sooner or later, those people keep adding up who say i'm going to plead the fifth, the fourth, it doesn't look good. it looks like there's something to hide particularly because the governor has said i want my people to cooperate. to the average person, pleading the fourth fourth and fifth amendment doesn't look like there. people have to start cooperating and cooperating to me means turning everything

bill stepien, quote, was one of the young operatives whose career he nurtured. other words, david wildstein knows where the bodies are buried in jersey. and that store of knowledge could become a very dangerous weapon against governor christie in the weeks ahead. brian murphy was the managing editor of politics nj where he worked for david wildstein who then used the pen name wally edge. thanks for joining us tonight. i want you to comment on two earlier stories quickly. one, it seems like mayor sokolich is now talking. he put out the word with "the bergen record" late today. it's in the paper now that he had all kinds of motive, the governor, to basically stick to it ft. lee's mayor sokolich. >> right. >> the trenton folks, the governor were giving him all kinds of gifts. they were giving him shuttle buses, fixing potholes, and found out he wasn't going to play ball with him which to me makes a motive for crashing down on the bridge there and closing lanes. the second big story, of course, is that christie somehow a week after letting it sit out there is denyin

we talk about wildstein and stepien.> just in terms of the editorial pages and the response from the general public might not be following every incremental development. there is concern about what christie knew and when he knew it. christie himself made the point that the single biggest offense his aides made was the fact that they lied to him. if it is true that christie lied and misrepresented what he knew and when he knew it, that sort of thing, that's when you get these headlines on the tabloid saying, christie knew. that's going to be the takeaway. folks are going to take. regardless of all the other kind of layers of this. politically speaking, that's why you are getting this sort of empettis saying he should step down if this is true. >> he would have to know where he was putting himself in that marathon two-hour press conference. he would have to know if evidence came to light later on, because that would leave him. we all have that on tape. >> i have shared this story on other shows. the first thing i have thou

bill stepien, bridget anne kelly and the committee saying hand it over, them saying no. that is going to be more and more the tenner of this. >> the issuance of these subpoenas says we're not playing around, we're going to get every piece of paper out there that exists on this thing and get to bottom of it. there are names on the subpoena list i didn't recognize which means they're digging deep into the strata of appointees and people like that. >> is there a way to compel people to turn over documents? seem to me if you're invoking the constitution here, it's going to be some authority other than the new jersey investigative committee with a final say on this. >> i think that's correct. i don't know the ins and outs of how they do compel them. it's vague and to take all necessary steps. i don't know what the necessary steps are. i assume going before a judge who would then compel the person to submit the response. >> in terms of the hardball here, the hardball is escalating on a bunch of different ways. the hoboken allegation, mayor dawn zimmer's allegations of the quid

bill stepien says he will invoke his fifth amendment rights and david wildstein already has. all the key players who we know from the e-mails were directly involved in this are not going to talk. so it's very hard to see -- and in the cases of stepien and kelly, turn over documents to the legislature. it's very hard to see how the legislature will get to the bottom of this. they're going to continue their investigations. they're going to get stuff from the governor's office. but the answers may end up with the u.s. attorney. now the question is, when we will learn what the u.s. attorney finds, if we ever do. they've got to bring a federal case for us to -- for the evidence that they get. and they can get this material. >> right. >> reporter: they can subpoena bridget kelly's yahoo! and gmail accounts and get them from third party providers. but we may never see that, unless they bring a federal case. >> right. >> reporter: so the bottom line is this drags on for quite some time and continues to hangover christie, as he goes around the country as rga chairman. >> and, as we kn

bill stepien who called mayor sokolich an idiot and flippantly told wildstein you win some, you lose some. and david samson who says he was calling in to help them retaliate when the port authority's chief threatened to shut down their scheme. then there is the second group we're looking at right now. the staffers being mentioned connected to the cover-up, the cover-up part of this thing. bill baroni who gave discredited testimony to lawmakers about the bogus traffic study that never existed. philip kwon, the port authority's general counsel, who spent five days apparently prepping or coaching baroni on what to say, making up this traffic study thing. bridget kelly, who said she was very happy with baroni's testimony, his performance, according to texts from wildstein. and then nicole grifo, who wildstein also mentions in texts. and mckenna who wildstein tells baroni you did great. melissa, this is fascinating, because this is a large web of people that were involved in coaching or saluting or praising baroni's cover-up claim it was all a traffic study. it's almost growing to be as l

don't forget, what ties wildstein and baroni and stepien and bridget kelly together is that they're all people picked by chris christie. does anyone really believe he still doesn't know what they were up to? in fact, what exactly is he investigating here? or is he simply trying to bully the potential witnesses against him? loretta weinberg is the new jersey state senate majority leader and co-chair of the select committee on investigation. brian murphy is a former political reporter in new jersey who now teaches u.s. history at baruch college in new york. let me go to senator weinberg on this. what did you make that the mayor of ft. lee does not want to turn over his documents or offer testimony to the governor's lawyer, the guy purportedly leading the governor's internal investigation of what happened on the bridge last september? >> you know, chris, what i'll tell you is that this is almost five months old, if not exactly five months old since those four days of gridlock, of traffic problems beyond comprehension happened. any time during those first couple of one or two or maybe even

of course, we know these christie staffers, bill stepien and deputy chief of staff bridget kelly have both invoked their fifth amendment right against self-incrimination and are refusing to turn over anything. bridget kelly, of course, is the person who worked in the governor's office who sent that e-mail that said "time for some traffic problems in ft. lee." she's the one who then professed basically her delight at the havoc that was being caused in ft. lee when the traffic problems they arranged did come to pass. here's the absolutely unexpected thing that happened in this scandal today. we know what the list is of people who have received subpoenas from the legislature. right? the legislature made that list public. it's 18 people and 2 organizations. one of the two organizations is governor christie's office. the other one is his re-election campaign. so we know exactly who has received subpoenas from the legislature. those ones that started to be due yesterday. then there's other subpoenas. we know in terms of the federal prosecutor's subpoenas. we know that those subpoenas have g

bridget kelly and bill stepien are refusing to comply and for the fist time the port authority chair is apologizing to the public for those traffic jams. >> recently, there have been many comments and concerns about how the port authority operates. i can not allow this agency to be mischaracterized by the actions of a few individuals when the day-to-day work of so ma many, including this board, is so important. on behalf of the board of commissioner, we are deeply sorry for inconvenience caused to our travelers. >> michael isikoff is in d.c. for us this morning. mike, again, we are going to continue to keep an eye and ear on governor christie's town hall there, but there are a lot of moving parts to this story. what are the most significant developments right now? >> well, probably this legal action yesterday by the state legislative committee to compel bridget kelly, christie's former deputy chief of staff, and bill stepien, the former campaign manager, to produce their e-mails and documents to the committee under subpoena. these are clearly two of the key witnesses in this case who

bill stepien, quote, was one of the young operatives whose career he nurtured.words, david wildstein knows where the bodies are buried in jersey. and that store of knowledge could become a very dangerous weapon against governor christie in the weeks ahead. brian murphy was the managing editor of politics nj where he worked for david wildstein who then used the pen name wally edge. thanks for joining us tonight. i want you to comment on two earlier stories quickly. one, it seems like mayor sokolich is now talking. he put out the word with "the bergen record" late today. it's in the paper now that he had all kinds of motive, the governor, to basically stick to it ft. lee's mayor sokolich. >> right. >> the trenton folks, the governor were giving him all kinds of gifts thauchlt were giving him shuttle buses, fixing potholes, and found out he wasn't going to play ball with him which to me makes a motive for crashing down on the bridge there and closing lanes. the second big story, of course, is that christie somehow a week after letting it sit out there is denying hi

stepien's attorney says we have received the brief and have not reviewed it.to note that kelly's attorney has not returned my request for comment, aaron. >> thank you very much. he's been covering this very important story for 2016. >>> now it's time for the "out front" out take. prince charles is out in a cultural festival in saudi arabia. he wore robes. where is he? he carried a sword in a traditional dance. when we watched it today, it seemed like he phoned it in. kind of like not really getting into it. why not show off what you can do like these dancing dignitaries. >>> i'm impressed we had nixon in there. >> still to come, ted nugent with incredibly harsh words for president obama. >>> american aircraft drops a bomb almost on american soldiers. >> oh, [ bleep ]. [ sneezes, coughs ] i've got a big date, but my sinuses are acting up. it's time for advil cold and sinus. [ male announcer ] truth is that won't relieve all your symptoms. new alka seltzer plus-d relieves more symptoms than any other behind the counter liquid gel. oh what a relief it is. [ femal

stepien's attorney says we have received the brief and have not reviewed it.pond appropriately. it's important to note that kelly's attorney has not returned my request for comment, erin. >> thank you very much. >>> now it's time for the "out front" out take. prince charles is on a tour in the middle east and today was in saudi arabia. during the ceremony, he wore robes. he carried a sword in a traditional dance. i'm sorry, but he must have looked ridiculous. when we watched it today, it seemed like he phoned it in. kind of like not really getting into wit the sword. why not show off what you can do like these dancing dignitaries. ♪ ♪ >> i'm impressed we had nixon in there. >> still to come, ted nugent with incredibly harsh words for president obama. >>> american aircraft drops a bomb almost on american soldiers. >> oh, [ bleep ]. there's this kid. coach calls her a team player. she's kind of special. she makes the whole team better. he's the kind of player that puts the puck, horsehide, bullet. right where it needs to be. coach calls it logistics. he's a grea

bill stepien is the former campaign manager who called the mayor of ft. lee an idiot.of the governor's

bill stepien, who is a key player in this and was the campaign manager, his lawyer on friday said he's going to take the fifth and he's not going to turn over any of the documents either because they're going to assert those documents are in violation of his fifth amendment rights. this could go on for quite some time and getting the answers to these questions, it's not at all clear the committee is going to be getting them anytime soon. >> what's your reaction to chris christie attacking david wildstein's high school record? what does that tell you, if anything? >> i thought that was an interesting response to this situation. that all goes to the point that the select committee, the legislative select committee that's in place to find out the truth is so important, because the people of new jersey and ft. lee and america want to know what happened, who knew what when, and all the other facts involved in this case. going back to wildstein's high school record, that's irrelevant. the people want to know the facts about the traffic chaos that occurred in ft. lee and why. >> michael, what

so if stepien and bridget kelly are the key players. at least they've been identified so far as the ones, you know, not only are we not going to hear from them testify thanksgiving public while there's this u.s. attorney investigation going on. we're not likely to see those e-mails and documents anytime soon. and so that leaves the ball in the court of the u.s. attorney. how long that investigation goes on. we don't know. but they're rarely concluded rapidly. so what we're left with is outstanding questions about who ordered the lane closures, why they did so. and no clear answers anytime in the foreseeable future. >> a big question mark with what's going to happen with subpoenas and what's behind the information documents. michael isakov. chris christie, so far, no bridgegate questions have been levied towards the governor. and he laid out that rule. hey, if you're going to ask that question, you better be ready to come back at you. you watched the governor for many years, you wrote the book on him. any surprise here, isn't he really i

bill st bill stepien, deputy campaign manager, what was his role? and the wild card, the u.s.aed the governor's campaign committee. they have subpoenaed the governor's -- the new jersey republican party. so it's quite clear, they're serious about this. >> lots of players here, you're definitely making that clear. michael isikoff, eleanor clift, thank you so much. appreciate it. >>> super bowl security with federal and local law enforcement agencies taking unprecedented security effort in preparation for the big game. nbc's ron mott is in times square for us. so ron, the false alarms, the investigation to all that, is that wrapped up? everything all clear on that front? >> reporter: all wrapped up, all clear on that front. and right now everybody is about having fun down here on what they have billed super bowl boulevard in times square. 13 blocks long, all sorts of activities and tens of thousands of people down here. some big-name stars down here, as well. and you can see behind me, got a lot of folks representing their favorite teams. obviously the locals, the giants and the

stepien wrote to wildstein, holy -- we can fill that word in.s he think he is, captain america? to which replied bad guy, welcome to our world. bridget kelly was enjoying the panic it created by shutting down the lanes on the bridge after learning that the ft. lee mayor had sent a panicked message to the port authority that kids couldn't get their buss to school, she wrote is it bad that i'm smiling? i feel badly about the kids, i guess. to which wildstein replied they're the children of bueno voters, in other words they voted for the democratic governor, not christie. in the world they're living in they're the good guys, and the real good guys like patrick foye who blew the whistle in this are the bad guys. i guess the rabbi was a bad guy by their terms. what kind of people are we talking about? and who talks like this? brian murphy was a reporter for politics nj.com. he is now a brand-new msnbc contributor. welcome, brian. >> thanks. >> and jonathan capehart is an opinion writer with "the washington post." he is also an msnbc contributor. bria

two of the key aides we know about, bridget kelly and bill stepien. the one who sent the e-mail, get ready for some traffic in ft. lee. she has decided to invoke her constitutional right of the fifth amendment, and bill stepien, who was really chris christie's right hand, his campaign manager -- >> and wildstein earlier did the same thing as far as his fifth amendment. >> to testify but not for documents. we're not sure about documents. >> we'll see if he gives those documents. he gave some earlier. >> yes. >> hold on for a moment. gloria is with us, as well, gloria borger, senior political analyst. this is the new cnn rnc poll numbers, all americans, registered voters, choice for 2016. back in december, it seems like a long time ago, christie was slightly ahead of hillary clinton, 48-46%. now hillary clinton is way ahead of christie, 55-39%. that's a pretty striking switch. >> yeah, she has clearly been the beneficiary on the national scale of his down fall. and that's because of independent voters. christie, if you look deeper into the poll numbers,

one other figure in this bridge scandal, bill stepien, who ran both of christie's gubernatorial campaigns, has told us through his lawyer that he intends to take the fifth and will not answer questions. lester? >> kelly o'donnell this morning. kelly, thanks. >>> security is extra tight for two major sporting events, the super bowl here in the new york city area tomorrow, of course, and the winter olympics in russia, which are now less than a week away. richard engel is outside of sochi. we'll speak with him in just a moment, but we begin with katy tur, who is live at super bowl boulevard, not too far from here, in the heart of times square. katy, good morning. it's strangely quiet behind you right now. >> reporter: i'm right above super bowl boulevard, erica, and yes, it is very quiet. this is about the only time you're going to see times square relatively empty. in a few hours, it's going to be completely packed in here. super bowl weekend is officially here, and security, of course, is top of mind. there are two states, more than 100 law enforcement agencies, and of course, millions of

bridget anne kelly and bill stepien have refused subpoenas calling for documents.his sets up a likely battle to see if the lawyer for the special investigation can compel them to hand it over. kelly famously e-mailed, time for some traffic problems in fort lee ahead of days of lane closures and cripples traffic that set off this investigation. >> we turn our attention to business. investigators are keeping an eye on those minutes. yesterday, the nasdaq rose for an eighth session. it's longest winning streak that we have seen since the summer. cnbc's steve sedgwick is live in london. good morning. >> reporter: let's tie that story together about watching the fed for when they are going to be tightens further and perhaps even hiking it. let's tie to that debt in the united states. household debt is back up to the levels we haven't seen. household debt in the united states between october and december, jumped $241 billion. it is now at 11.5 trillion u.s. dollars. that's the public debt. a mean $17 trillion. it is really going up. it is mortgage debt, cars, education.

. >> stepien has refused to provide documents.n the vote. >> we abstained and the argument was from my colleagues mostly we didn't have a chance to look at these things. they were prepared days in advance. we didn't get them until the day of the meeting. i'm not going to say it's a sin of commission but it's a thing we've had a problem with on this committee is oftentimes the communication is not as it should be. as the chairman said before hand, we have never done this before. >> but i think that there was nothing new that was coming before us as it related to those subpoenas. we knew what the subpoenas covered. we knew who the subpoenas were directed towards. we knew what we were asking for. we were determining what to do having had those individuals plead the fifth. and what we did was say that the subpoenas were valid, that the information requested was germa germane, so i don't know how long it takes someone to know whether or not those few items were needed to hold debate and discussion and for knowledge to make a decision w