stepien: afterwards? rep. lofgren: mr. stepien: yes. mr. stepien:mr. stepien: nine. --none. the kindness of hearing what mike pence was talking about that night sounding like a normal republican. we counted hundreds of votes. when we think about calling a race, one of the things we would think about, is it outside the margin of a recount? in modern history, you're talking about 1000 votes, 1500 votes. normally you are talking about hundreds of votes, maybe 300 votes. the idea that through any normal process, remember he had to do it twice. he needed three of these states to change. in order to do that, you are better off to play the powerball than to have that come in. rep. lofgren: on november 7, mr. stepien told the committee he thought the odds were "very, very, very bleak." and held a meeting with the president that same day. let's show clip eight, video clip eight. [video clip] mr. stepien: came the third, the fourth, the fizz -- the fifth. trump's lead grew more narrow. in some places, biden surpassed trump in those totals. as the week wore on and we paid attention to

stepien's wife went into labor this morning. mr. stepien unexpectedly had to travel to be with his wife and we wish him the best. deught to the depth and rigor of our investigation, several hours of mr. stepien's testimony when we interviewed him in february and we will be presenting that testimony today. i will now square in our witness. the witness will rise and raise his right hand. do you swear or affirm on the penalty of perjury that the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you god. let the record reflect that the witness answered in the affirmative. i recognize myself for questions. i want to start by showing a video that tells the story of what was going on in the trump white house on election night in november of 2020. >> do you know where you were on the night of the election, november 3. >> i was at the white house. >> dune where in the course of the white house you spent most of your time in the white house? >> there was an event that was organized so i moved bet

stepien. [video clip] mr. stepien: i recounted with him that i told him it was going to be a long night. i told him it was going to be a process again. early returns are going to be positive. we are going to be watching the returns of ballots as they roll in. >> is it fair you thought that was a realistic picture of what would happen over the course of election night? >> that night and the days that followed. i always told the president the truth. i think he expected that from me. i told him it was going to be in process. he would have to wait and see how it turned out. just like i did in 2016, i did the same thing in 2020. rep. lofgren: let's watch a short clip of president trump speaking after he received that advice from his campaign. president trump: we want all voting to stop. we don't want to find any ballots at 4:00 and add them to the list. ms. lofgren: when former president trump said that, he contradicted what his advisors warned would happen. we all know mail-in ballots played an important role in t

stepien, mr.been president -- spoke to the president several times that night. >> there were suggestions by, i believe it was major rudy giuliani to declare victory and say we won it out right. >> it was far too early to be making any calls like that. ballots were still being counted. it was far too early to be making any proclamation like that. >> i was saying we should not declare victory until we had a better sense of the numbers. >> can you be more specific about that conservation of what major rudy giuliani said and anybody else response in the room. >> i think major giuliani was saying we won it, they're stealing it from us. where did the votes come from. and anyone who didn't agree with this position was being weak. >> what was your view at the time as to what he should or shouldn't say? >> i don't know that i had a firm view as to what he should say in that circumstance. the results were still being counted. it was becoming clear that the race would not be called on election night. >> my b

donald trump's 2020 campaign manager, bill stepien. cnn political analyst, maggie haverman. wasn't expecting to see bill stepien on the witness list today. place him for me in the trump organization between the election and january 6th. >> bill stepien took over as campaign manager in july of 2020. he was in charge of the campaign on election night, as donald trump was being urged by rudy giuliani, go say you won. other advisers were saying, absolutely do not do that. trump wanted to do it. to be clear, trump has agency here. it's not like he needed giuliani to tell him to do that. stepien was present when was told what the data showed, if there was a chance to thwart biden's win. stepien is key to talking about what trump was informed about over and over, the fact he lost. >> you think he might have some opinions on rudy giuliani? >> i'm confident he has opinions on giuliani, as almost everybody who worked on that campaign did. i think -- he's appearing under subpoena. that's important to note. it's not as if he's showing up as a will

stepien, mr.meadows, or anyone else about whether the president should make any sort of speech on election night? >> iean, i spoke to th president. they may have been present, but the president -- spoke to the president several times that night. >> there are suggestions by, i believe it was mayor giuliani, to go and declare victory and say that we won it outright. >> it was far too early to be making any calls like that. ballots -- ballots were still being counted. ballots were still going to be counted for days. and it was far too earlyo be making any proclamation like that. >> i remember saying that i -- to the best of my memory, and i was saying that we should not go and declare victory until we had a better sense of the numbers. ok. cayou be more specific about that conversation? in particular, what mayor giuliani said, your response, and then anybody else in the room's response? >> i think effectively, mayor giuliani was saying we want it. they're stealing it from us. where'd all the votes co

bill stepien never resigned as campaign chairman.ard is how does trump respond and i should note we're hearing from my colleague that they believe they are only going to ramp up their attacks on liz cheney on this panel. bill stepien is working as an adviser to the person running against her in wyoming. the republican who is challenging her. someone who has been backed by trump. so just fold those dynamics into this as you're hearing what they're saying public or versus what they were saying at the time and people were believing there was fraud in the election. >> and the candidate that bill stepien is working for is also pushing the election lies that bill stepien saying they're not true. >>> right now we're joined by one of today's witnesses. the philadelphia city commissioner al schmidt. commissioner, thank you for being here. appreciate it. let's start, because a lot of people maybe haven't been following this as closely as i have. are you a republican? trump says you're a rino? republican in name only? how solid are your credent

mister stepien had to travel unexpectedly to be with his wife and we wish them the best. due to the depth and rigor of our investigation, these several hours of mister stepien's testimony from when we interviewed him in february we will bepresenting that testimony today . i'll mouse swear in our witness. the witness will please stand and raise his righthand . >> do you swear or affirm on under penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to hear is the truth, whole truth and nothing but the truth will help you god ? thank you. you may be seated. let the record reflect the witness answered in the affirmative. i now recognize myself for questions. i want to start by showing a video that tells the story of what was going on in thetrump white house on election night in november 2020 . >> do you remember where you were on the night of the election november 3 ? >> i was at the white house. >> do you know where specifically over the course of that night you spent your time in the white house ? >> there was an event that was organized in the restaurant so i moved between th

you have bill stepien, a.g.shner, and then the committee showed one by one that those people started to fade away, that the only person left was rudy giuliani and his false outlandish claims. you had bill stepien saying, look, i wanted to make sure my rep take was intact and the things i saw were not honest and professional. you saw a.g. barr saying that he told former president trump directly, the doj does not take sides in elections. there is no evidence of fraud. and by the way, we are not your personal legal team. and then you saw jared kushner lay out that he told president trump directly, this is not the approach that you should be taking. and former president trump saying that he had confidence in rudy giuliani. so really, the lawmakers today, the committee today, was really showing how this inner circle of president trump, it just shrunk and shrunk and shrunk, and we now have the people that are here, but there is another point to be made, which is that while this lie grew and grew and metastasized, it a

what are you expecting today from bill stepien?e is appearing under subpoena. >> he is but a subpoena sometimes can be a formality. there is no indication that he will in any way be hostile to the committee's questioning. he is coming in to talk about the facts. he was the former president's campaign manager in 2020. so he has direct knowledge of his conversations and he can talk about that, what conversations did he have, what did he say about the election results, what was the former president's ee books reaction and then to contrast those conversations about the facts and election results with what trump went up on the stage on january 4 and said, saying that he won when there was nothing to indicate that and the vote was still being counted. >> a big day ahead. we appreciate you taking the time out to speak with us. thank you. >>> in chicago this weekend multiple shooting incidents left seven people dead, many more wounded at a restaurant, in a sidewalk, inside a driving car. this weekend thousands of americans participated in

stepien, mr.n, i spoke to the president. i spoke to the president several times that night. >> there awere suggestions by i believe it was mayor giuliani to go and declare victory and say that we'd won it outright. >> it was far too early to be making any calls like that. ballots -- ballots were still being counted. ballots were still going to be counted for days, and it was far too early to be making any propagation like that. >> i remember saying that -- to the best of my memory, i was saying that we should not go and declare victory until we had a better sense of the numbers. >> okay. can you be more specific about that conversation in particular what mayor giuliani said? your response, and then anybody else in the room's response. >> i think effectively mayor giuliani was saying, we won it. they're stealing it from us. where did all the votes come from? we need to go say that we won, and essentially that anyone who didn't agree with that position was being weak. >> what was your view at the ti

will stepien stipulate the same? >> we're told today's hearing will focus on the election fraud lies and how they helped fuel rioters to riot and attack. committee aides say we will hear evidence that trump knowingly knew the claims were baseless but spread the lies anyway. the hearing will also call a former fox news political he had to for on how trump pressured the network on calling arizona early for biden. let's go first to cnn anchor and washington correspondent pamela brown. tell us who we are expect to go hear from. >> we're expecting five key witnesses and this is going to be two panels of witnesses this morning. first up, you have trump's former campaign manager bill stepien, he is going to be testifying under subpoena this morning and he's going to be paired with chris steiger walt the former political director of fox who was fired after backs lash because he oversaw fox calling arizona for joe biden. as you know, that infuriated trump world. it's interesting the pairing of these two men because they can t

tim miller writes, stepien didn't just take some arm's length consultancy. he chose to sit in the big boys here as the man child responsible for getting trump four more years in power. and his testimony to the committee, bill stepien tried to distance himself from the crazier trump advisers. and he said he believes trump was not being honest after the election. >> there were two groups of [inaudible] we call them, my team and [inaudible] team. i didn't mind being characterized part as of team normal, as [inaudible] try to do around that time. i didn't think what was happening with necessarily on us or professional at that point in time. so, yeah -- that led to me stepping away. >> again, could have blown the whistle, could have called up a reporter, could have given an interview -- could have tweeted something. and he claims to have stepped away by step in stepien was still raking a ton of cash for the consultant for the trump packing campaign. where is that paycheck signed, bill? he's also consulting for the woman trump wants to replace january six committe

stepien, mr.ws, or anyone else, about whether the president should make any sort of speech on election night? >> i spoke to the president. but the president spoke to me several times that night -- >> there were suggestions by -- i believe it was mayor giuliani to go and declare victory, and say that we'd won it outright. >> it was far too early to be making any calls like that. ballots, ballots were still being counted. ballots were still gonna be counted for days. and it was far too early to make any proclamation like that. >> i remember saying that -- i, in the best of my memory, i was saying that we should not go and declare victory, until we had a better sense of the numbers. >> okay, can we watch the civic about that conversation, in particular what mayor giuliani said your response, and then, everybody else's response in the room? >> i think it's actually rudy giuliani, he was saying, we won it. they're stealing it from us. where did all the votes come from? we need to go to say that we won.

stepien obviously could not be with us today. it is proper for him to be with his wife as they welcome his child, but he also had discussions with the president about the red mirage, that is that it would be a long night and early votes would favor him, but lots more votes will be counted over the course of the night and days after. let's play a clip one from our interview with mr. stepien. >> i recounted back to that conversation with him, in which i said, just like i said 2016 would be a long night, i told him in 2020 that it was going to be a process, again, as the early returns will be positive. and we will be watching returns of ballots as they rolled in there after. >> is it fair to say that you're trying to present what you thought would be a realistic picture of what may have been over the course of the big election night? >> that night and the days that followed, yeah, i always told the president the truth. i think he expected that for me. i told him that it would be a process. we would have to wait and see how this turn

stepien also testified that mr.is for declaring victory at that point in time. >> my -- my belief, my recommendation, was to say that votes were still being counted, it's too early to -- to tell, too early to call the race. but you know, were proud of the race we have run -- we ran, and we, you know, think we're -- think we're in good position, and we will have more to say about this, you know, the next day, or the next day, whenever we had something to say. >> thank you. mr. stirewalt, after the votes were counted, who won the presidential election of 2020? >> joseph robinette biden jr. of the great state of delaware. >> thank you. that's the bottom line. we have had an election mr. trump lost, but he refused the accept the results of the democratic process pursuant to section 5c 8 of house resolution of 503, i now recognize the gentlewoman from california, ms. lofgren for questions. >> thank you, mr. chairman. circumstance i would like you to explain a term that was thrown around a lot during the election. that's

the admission of stepien raised eyebrows.it under what circumstances he is appearing and what other themes might we hear from some of the other witnesses today? >> it sure did raise a lot of eyebrows. and the question is, is has bill stepien been cooperating with the committee? you know, throughout the past year, we've been hearing about all of the people who have not been cooperating with the committee, but behind the scenes, the committee has spoke within more than a thousand people. and is bill stepien one of those people with and what sort of information is he going to provide? the role and the goal of the committee today is to really lay out that former president trump was told over and over again that he lost the election. we saw a preview of that in the hearing, the prime time hearing last thursday, and then the committee is going to try to show that despite being told that, he went forward, with this, what they are saying, scheme, to try to stay in power, especially on january 6th. and so this is once again going to l

look at the trump campaign manager, bill stepien.eam normal as opposed to giuliani's team, that was pushing all these lies. and yet stepien is now advising liz cheney's opponent, harriet eggman, in wyoming, who has backed election fraud claims. i mean this is hard to unwind from a party at this point, right? >> don, you know, isn't that just the craziest thing you ever heard? that he would now be working to try to defeat liz cheney? i mean, you know, people are inconsistent. they seek money. sometimes they seek power. and it's bitterly disappointing. >> sometimes? >> you've got to have a north star, and some people just don't seem to have it. i really don't know this guy. i don't know why he's doing it, but it doesn't make a lot of sense, right? where he's supporting somebody who's trying to set the record straight in terms of what donald trump tried to do. and, don, you know, the interesting thing, not just mentioning the party, but in regard to the first question, something else occurred to me, and that is if they keep putting this

this is what bill stepien said. had i evaluated mr.cal operative, i would have said all of them were on team normal. they were running normal campaigns against democrats because they believed different things and thought the country should be run a different way. but all of those people stayed until the very end. we spent four years covering this presidency where, i mean, think about what had happened before you get to the point where bill stepien finally says, i have to walk away, this is too much. and even when he does walk away, he doesn't do it in public. doesn't tell anybody about it. general milley marched across lafayette square as protesters were being teargassed. so many things happened and so many republican members of quote, unquote team normal justified it. i'm sorry, they did. >> the important thing to remember is team normal is also team chicken. they knew what was going on and they couldn't bring themselves to do anything about it. >> they were enabling. >> -- to stop even what bill barr said is doing a great disservice

stepien has been in the campaign field for a long time.ns given the claim that mr. giuliani and ms. powell, and their team were making publicly. let's play clip 15. >> it was important for you, mr. stepien, just to pull back for your own professional education. he did not want to be affiliated with what -- in the wake of your departure >> there were two groups we called them my team and rudy's team. i did not mind being characterized as part of team normal as reporter started to do at that point time. i said hours ago, early on, i had been doing this for a long time, 25 years. i have political ideologies from trump, mccain, bush, christie, i can work under a lot of circumstances for a lot of varied candidates and politicians. the situation -- i think along the way i built up pretty good reputation for being honest and professional. i just think what was happening was not professional at that point in time. >> the president did get rid of team normal. i would like to show a clip that the president found the people he needed to perpetuate hi

yesterday in the hearing, we heard video testimony from former trump campaign manager bill stepien.teresting. take a listen. >> two groups, we called them kind of my team and rudy's team. i didn't mind being characterized as being part of team normal. i think along the way, i have built up a pretty good reputation for being honest and professional. and i didn't think what was happening was necessarily honest or professional. >> so making himself out to be somebody who was honest and professional. he doesn't respect donald trump's election lies. but he is working with a bunch of election liars to defeat republicans that are not election liars, specifically i believe that's the alaska senate candidate to go after murkowski, and that's the wyoming congressional candidate to go after liz cheney. >> that part bothers me less. it's mercenary and all that. the part that bothers me is that the team normal guy who says he was obliged to be honest and tell the truth, only did so under a subpoena. >> right. >> like he let donald trump go out and lie about all these things and peddle all this s

bill stepien, he was the trump campaign manager in 2020. know before today that he had contact with the committee that he was cooperating with the committee. he's under subpoena, he's poised to show up tomorrow. look, we'll see how cooperative he is, if he has anything big to reveal but the fact he's going to be there is important because other top trump aides made a different decision, refused. so bill stepien the fact he's there tomorrow in the room, that's significant. also a guy named chris tirewalt, a fox news contributor those are the guys behind the scenes making the projections who won, who lost. it was a big deal when they projected biden won arizona. it was a whole big issue. he has since lost that job, fox says it was because of restructuring but it's hard not to draw the conclusion. he's on record saying trump tried to steal the election in 2020. there's ben ginsburg as well tomorrow. well known republican election lawyer. he was the top lawyer for bush/cheney in 2000, 2004, litigated bush v gore, not a liberal. so the committee

his campaign manager, bill stepien recalled what he told trump about his prospects.his is just after the election. >> very very very bleak. you know, we told him that the group that went over there outlined, you know, my belief and chances for success at this point. you know, my belief is that it was a very very 5 to 10%s, it's not a very good optimistic outlook. >> 5 to 10% there. well, then the committee showed how trump continued to embrace allegations of fraud, although white house lawyers told him the accusations were baseless or just weren't substantial enough to make a real difference, and the justice department, they told him there was no there there. but trump kept listening to the conspiracies and telling the same lies. >> gets back to the point that there was so many of these allegations that when you gave him a very direct answer on one of them, he wouldn't fight us on it, but he would move to another allegation. he said there's lots of fraud going on here. we told him flat out much of the information he's getting is false and/or just not supported by the

rudy giuliani or bill stepien.t wasn't just bill stepien, it was bill barr, it was the department of justice, it was the fbi. dozens and dozens. they're making the argument that donald trump had to know he lost the election or to use the legal term, was willfully behind from it. only heard what he wanted to hear from rudy giuliani, sidney powell and others trying to set the stage and saying there's just no way he could have legitimately believed he won the election. >> elie honig, great. just for the record, i didn't order the code red and i didn't know the truth. >>> whether any findings could lead to a criminal referral. chairman bennie thompson said the committee would not make a referral and let the evidence stand on its own. and within hours including liz cheney incivilitied that a decision had not yet been made. let's talk about this with cnn john avlon, "early start" anchor and attorney laura jarrett and jeremy collins, attorney for tax and securities fraud cases. this is interesting, are they not on the sam

. >> bill stepien was supposed to testify live but when his went into labor, he bowed out. >> did anybody who was a part of that conversation disagree with your message? >> yes. >> who was that? >> the president disagreed with that. >> reporter: the result was a methodical rejection of trump's claims of fraud delivered by his campaign and white house ad advisers, respected professionals who said trump stopped ybelieving in them. >> i didn't mind being characterized as part of team normal. >> there was no credible evidence of fraud produced by the trump campaign or his supporters. >> reporter: the committee also drawing a line between trump's big lie and his fund-raising. >> the claims that the election was stolen were so successful. president trump and his allies raised the $250 million. >> reporter: voters were told the money would be used to fight voter fraud, which didn't exist. >> and seven in totals throughout the month of june. the third hearing scheduled for wednesday is designed to address trump's attempt to infiltrate the department of justice and there's also the possibility tha

instead, this videotape of stepien also saying he disagreed with giuliani. >> brallots were going to be counted for days >> reporter: but the president declared victory on election night anyway >> frankly, we did win this election >> reporter: creating a rift in his inner circle as courts rejected 61 of 62 legal cases file filed by the president's team. >> we called it my team and rudy's team. i didn't mind being part of team normal >> what they were proposing was completely nuts. >> reporter: the president's embrace of the so-called big lie of the stolen election ultimately leading his attorney general to resign. >> i thought, boy, if he really believe believes this stuff, he's become dee tamed from reality >> reporter: republicans largely ignoring the hearing they call partisan >> no ability for republicans to do any type of cross examination. i still don't think there was anything new there >> reporter: attorney general garland saying the justice department is tracking the testimony. >> the january 6 prosecutors are watching all the hearings as well >> our thanks to garrett for th

stepien in december where he me.e said he had lost _ stepien in december where he said he had lost nothing — stepien in december where he said he had lost nothing people _ stepien in december where he said he had lost nothing people have told - had lost nothing people have told president — had lost nothing people have told president trump _ had lost nothing people have told president trump time _ had lost nothing people have told president trump time after - had lost nothing people have told president trump time after time i had lost nothing people have told . president trump time after time that he had _ president trump time after time that he had lost _ president trump time after time that he had lost in — president trump time after time that he had lost in there _ president trump time after time that he had lost in there some _ president trump time after time that he had lost in there some had - he had lost in there some had told him he _ he had lost in there some had told him he want — he had lost in there some h

trump campaign manager bill stepien backing out of a planned live appearance this morning at the last minute after his wife went into labor. instead the committee played this videotape of stepien earlier saying he also disagreed with giuliani >> ballots were still going to be counted for days, and it was far too early to make any proclamations like that. >> reporter: but the president declared victory on election night anyway. >> frankly, we did win. >> reporter: creatin a rift in his inner circle that only grew as courts rejected 61 of 62 legal cases filed by the president's team >> we called them kind of my team and rudy's team i didn't mind being characterized as being part of team normal. >> what they were proposing i thought was nuts you know, the theory was also completely nuts >> reporter: the president's embrace of the so-called big lie of a stolen election ultimately leading his attorney general to resign >> i thought, boy, if he really believes this stuff he has, you know, lost contact with -- he's become detached from reality if he really believes this stuff >> reporter: re

the committee showed recordings of stepien's depositions where he urged president trump not to declare victory on election night. >> it was far too early to be making any calls like that. ballots -- ballots were still being counted -- >> reporter: the president did anyway. >> frankly, we did win this election. ( cheers and applause ) >> reporter: egged on by the apparently inebriated rudy giuliani who told trump the election had been stolen from him. >> was there anyone in that conversation who, in your observation, had too much to drink? >> the mayor was definitely intoxicated. son--law said he warned th president about rudy giuliani's advice. >> how did he react? said i hadondee in reporter: mike pence who refused trump's demands he certify the ekes will have january 6th defended his >> i'll always believe i did my truth that day. >> reporter: the committee said election lies helped trump raise a quarter of a billion dollars, raised for a fund they say didn't exist. >> it was a big ripoff. >> reporter: millions would be funneled to the president's save america pac which would penned

stepien and his family all the best on the arrival of a new baby. today's hearing, mr. chairman, was very narrowly focused, and in the coming days use the committee move on to president trump's broader planning for january 6th, colluding his plan to cut the department of justice and is detailed planning with lawyer john eastman to pressure the vice president, state legislatures, state officials, and others to overturn the election. let me leave you today with one click, to preview what you will see in one of our hearings to come. this is the testimony of white house lawyer eric herschmann. john eastman called mr. herschmann the day after january 6th, and here's how that conversation went. >> i said to him are you out of your acting mind? i only want to hear two words come out of your mouth for now, orderly transition. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i yield back. >> at the conclusion of last week's hearing, we showed you a video explaining why that come to washington on january 6th. it was because donald trump told them to be here. today we heard about some of the lies dona

it got off to a late start after a key witness bill stepien, former president trump's former campaign manager, skipped the hearing because his wife had gone into labor. another witness turned out to be the star witness of the day here here's the headline from the washington post. william barr says trump was obsessed with fraud notions. this is some of the testimony from the former attorney general of the united states. >> i felt it was time for me to say something, so i set up a lunch with the ap reporter. i told him at lunch -- i made the statement that to date we have not seen fraud on a scale that could have effected a different outcome in the election. i had a later meeting scheduled at the white house at 3:00 with meadows. this was previously scheduled, so i knew this was going to come up. i went over and pull my secretary that i thought i would probably be fired and told to go home -- not to go back to my office. i said you might have to pack up for me. i met with the chief of staff. he said the president was angry. he did not really get into the issue of the fraud and then i we

the committee instead showed recordings of stepien's deposition in which he acknowledged urging then-rump not to declare victory on election night. >> it was far too early to be making any calls like that. ballots-- ballots were still being counted. >> reporter: the president did anyway. >> frankly, we did win this election. ( cheers and applause ) >> reporter: egged on by an apparently-inebriated rudy giuliani, who told trump the election had been stolen from him. >> was there anyone in that conversation who, in your observation, had had too much to drink? >> the mayor was definitely intoxicated. >> reporter: jared kushner, the former president's son-in-law, says he warned trump about giuliani's advice. >> and how did he react? >> he said, you know, "i-- i have confidence in rudy." >> reporter: former vice president mike pence, who refused trump's demand that he object to the certifying of the election january 6th, defended his actions today. >> i'll always believe i did my duty that day. >> reporter: the committee also said election lies helped trump raise a quarter of a billion dol

we heard from bill stepien's trump's campaign manager, maga faithful. he said he's part of team normal and he testified he distanced himself from trump's lies, a republican operative fired by governor cooper cupp during the bridgegate scandal and helps candidates running on the big lie, one primarying liz cheney. it's whether it's image to save face or the possibility that a team normal faction did exist during the trump campaign. these are trump people, aides, foot soldiers and biggest cheerleader. this isn't a story about the good republicans about the bad ones. it's not about bad guys who became good, and it's certainly not a story about redemption. these are the bad guys. they say they opposed trump's antics and nuttiness but they sure were willing to walk right up to the line. they just weren't willing to crime it to commit the ultimate crime of overthrowing our democracy, and that doesn't make you a hereo. also a story with much more to come with thursday's hearing focusing on trump's pressure on mike pence. late today the committee highlighted th

that's what the bill stepiens of the world are doing.s eating that up. they're willing to go out and do what benefits them and support the candidates who are selling that same lie. they are doing what benefits them. whether that is sustainable for a democracy is another thing. it's probably working out just fine for bill stepien, and the candidates he's helping are doing the same thing. they want a trump endorsement, especially running against cheney, she wanted extra leverage to try to defeat liz cheney. it's a cycle on that side that there hasn't been anyone who has been really able to break it. >> how about i can't work for you if you're going to promote and propagate a lie that is a danger to democracy? is that hard? >> it apparently is for him. >> apparently is for him. >>> hear say is a fancy word for rumor, and the new answer when asked if democrats are nervous about the president's reelection prospects. convenieient tools. one bank withth the power of both. chase. make more of what's yours. think he's posting about all that ancie

for example, campaign manager bill stepien testified he told trump there was just a 5% to 10% chanceon. but here's what he said on a conference call, the night after trump falsely claimed victory in pennsylvania. >> numbers and data, not gut or spin, we did it yesterday, we'll do it today. we will win pennsylvania. i have as much confidence today as i had yesterday as i had last week. >> likewise, senior adviser jason miller testified he brought in the campaign data guy to tell trump the jig was up, but that didn't stop him from fluffing the big lie on fox. >> whether it is in the recount process or as we go through the constitutionality of some of the elections that were held at the state level, that absolutely some of these states could change. >> so why would someone tell the truth in private, but lie in public? well, the answer at least in large part is the partisan economy. now, keep in mine that the total cost of the 2020 elections was 14.4 billion, that's more than double the amount from four years before, according to the watchdog group open secrets. you see, it is dolled out

in fact, trump's campaign manager, bill stepien, even said in one deposition that he and other trump knew there wasn't fraud had been divided into a separate group from all the crazy people and the non-crazy people even had an informal name >> i didn't mind being categorized -- there were two groups of them we called them kind of "my team" and "rudy's team." i didn't mind being characterized as being part of team normal, as reporters, you know, kind of started to do around that point in time. >> seth: that's right, they were known as "team normal. now, i can tell you the specific names of the people who were supposedly on team normal, or i could just tell you that none of them looked like this. [ laughter and applause "hey, i'm here for team normal tryouts. actually, i'm sorry, team normal is full. "be honest, was it my eyes?" [ laughter ] [ applause ] also -- also, in regards to stepien, i'd argue that, despite his resistance at trump's fraud claims, he was still just as complicit as anyone else, given that he was managing trump's campaign even while trump was preemptively claiming

stepien couldn't be with us today and it is proper for him to be with his wife because she is havingr child. he also had a discussion about the president about the red mirage. it would be a long night and early votes would favor him but lots more votes would be counted over the course of the night and the days after. so let's play clip one from our interview with him. >> i recounted back to that conversation with him in which i said, like i said in 2016 it would be a long night, i told him in 2020 that, you know, it would be a process again as, you know, the early returns are going to be positive and we are going to be watching the returns of ballots as they rolled in thereafter. >> is it fair to say you were trying to present what you thought would be a realistic picture what might happen over the course of that night being election night. >> that night and the days that followed. i always -- i always, you know, i always told the president the truth and, you know, i think he expected that from me and i told him it would be a process. it was going to be, you know, you know, see how i

instead the committee is showing video of its interviews with stepien. also testifying today a former fox news political editor who called the state of arizona for joe biden the night of the 2020 election decision that reportedly upset former president trump ktvu is broadcasting the entire hearing for you this morning at ktvu, plus and online ktvu .com. certainly will have an update for you coming up at 9 30. millbrae city council member says he was attacked over the weekend while walking at lands end in san francisco. andrew fang says he was with his family on saturday evening at about 5 30 when someone above them on the cliffs drop to concrete brick down on his head and says at first he thought it might have been an accident. but then two people continue to throw things at him. as my family came to my rescue, they looked up and yelling at the perpetrator. who was still showing objects heavy objects down from above about 20 ft. high punk's family says two young men even flipped them off as they ran away and was treated for a head injury and says it's im