steve aftergood has been setting up for many years, pogo. there's almost no penalties. there has to be a think the main reason why congress needs to take action. you can change mind of the bureaucracy and how it works. you can change the law in their hearts and minds will follow. >> actually play the executive branch actually want the ambiguity because the ambiguity gives them almost unlimited discretion in dealing with issues and yet the results in things but the ultimate trump card with your dealing with the chords, congressional oversight or whatever, nobody wants to be the one who compromises truly sensitive information and it tends to be this over darfur region. it is a simple assertion. it cannot be demonstrated as it truly should be classified. >> there's so many other games i would like to comment on, but i'm assuming this committee has requested through the years a great deal of classified material. do you think that agencies are classified some material for a lot of material that doesn't need to be classified to avoid or get around the congressional effect is

steve aftergood has been studies it, pogo. every incentive is to classify. there's almost no disincentive. there are no penalties. there has to be, i think, this is the main reason why congress needs to take action. because y'all can change the minds of the bureaucracy and how it actually works. you can change the laws and their hearts and minds will follow. >> i actually believe that the executive branch in general agencies in particular actually want the ambiguity because the ambiguity gives them almost unlimited discretion. in dealing with issues. and yes, it results in dumb things, but it's the ultimate trump card to pull out whether you're dealing with the courts, whether you're dealing with congressional oversight or whatever. nobody wants to be the one who compromised truly sensitive information. so there tends to be this over deferential to any assertion, and that's what it is, a simple assertion. it cannot be demonstrated that truly should be classified. >> well, there's so many other things i would like to add or comment on, but mr. amey, i'm assum

steve aftergood has been studies it, pogo. every incentive is to classify. there's almost no disincentive. there are no penalties. there has to be, i think, this is the main reason why congress needs to take action. because y'all can change the minds of the bureaucracy and how it actually works. you can change the laws and their hearts and minds will follow. >> i actually believe that the executive branch in general agencies in particular actually want the ambiguity because the ambiguity gives them almost unlimited discretion. in dealing with issues. and yes, it results in dumb things, but it's the ultimate trump card to pull out whether you're dealing with the courts, whether you're dealing with congressional oversight or whatever. nobody wants to be the one who compromised truly sensitive information. so there tends to be this over defer ngzal to any assertion, and that's what it is, a simple assertion. it cannot be demonstrated that truly should be classified. >> well, there's so many other things i would like to add or comment on, but mr. amey, i'm assum

steve aftergood has been studies it, pogo. every incentive is to classify.congress needs to take action. because y'all can change the minds of the bureaucracy and how it actually works. you can change the laws and their hearts and minds will follow. >> i actually believe that the executive branch in general agencies in particular actually want the ambiguity because the ambiguity gives them almost unlimited discretion. in dealing with issues. and yes, it results in dumb things, but it's the ultimate trump card to pull out whether you're dealing with the courts, whether you're dealing with congressional oversight or whatever. nobody wants to be the one who compromised truly sensitive information. so there tends to be this over deferential to any assertion, and that's what it is, a simple assertion. it cannot be demonstrated that it truly should be classified. >> well, there's so many other things i would like to add or comment on, but mr. amey, i'm assuming -- this committee has requested through the years a great deal of classified material. and do you think