let's be very clear, nicole, to steve bannon. steve bannon is an explicit as you could be.s you exactly the direction that he believes the maga movement should go. he had said right before the election, he told me that donald trump was a moderate in the maga movement. right. nobody would question the ways in which steve bannon, where he sought to take the government and by and large, steve bannon wanted that to make sure that he held on to the legions of millions of americans that catapulted donald trump into the white house two different times. and now, of course, elon musk, though, where does he take this power? and if at any point donald trump tried to reel him back or give him the boot from the white house, what does that ultimately look like? what are the consequences of it? i think we are so far from understanding that not only as journalists, but a public at large. and i think there's a lot of questions here on capitol hill, not just for democrats, but republicans, too. >> i think for donald trump as well, to understand that by shifting the power away from steve bann

here's what he said to steve bannon. quote, we got this idea to record the january 6 prisoners who recite the national anthem and took that to the studio see we mastered and digitize tvmentd that's a direct contradiction under oath of his involvement. what difference does it make? a recording, come on, durbin, move on. the recording was of political prisoners who stormed this capitol and assaulted 140 of our best and brightest and most well trained people that guard us every single day. capitol police and their d.c. counterparts. they are trying to -- some people are trying to lionize the city's effort by these thugs who came and stormed the capitol and screaming out hang vice president pence. i hope that we don't fall into this trap of trying to rewrite history what happened on january 6. that was an atrocious display of political might. and wonderful people who guard us every sing daily in this capitol. there are some here who wouldn's hearing, they disparaged the very thought that these people would be pardoned if the

here's what he said to steve bannon. quote, we got this idea to record the january 6 prisoners who recite the national anthem and took that to the studio see we mastered and digitize tvmentd that's a direct contradiction under oath of his involvement. what difference does it make? a recording, come on, durbin, move on. the recording was of political prisoners who stormed this capitol and assaulted 140 of our best and brightest and most well trained people that guard us every single day. capitol police and their d.c. counterparts. they are trying to -- some people are trying to lionize the city's effort by these thugs who came and stormed the capitol and screaming out hang vice president pence. i hope that we don't fall into this trap of trying to rewrite history what happened on january 6. that was an atrocious display of political might. and wonderful people who guard us every sing daily in this capitol. there are some here who wouldn's hearing, they disparaged the very thought that these people would be pardoned if the

look, the mini feud between elon musk and steve bannon, it might not be so many after all. it's starting to spill out into the open. listen to what bannon said, giving somewhat of a let's call this a backhanded compliment to musk. >> this week we learned that musk has access to treasury's payment systems. should he be able to see or change those payments. >> elon an engineer, he thinks of things in an engineering framework. so the work elon is doing is very important. he's already identified something we've tried to get rid of for years. the house freedom caucus tried to get rid of it for years, and the usaid statutorily hasn't been removed. it's going to be rolled up under it looks like marco rubio, but it looks like you have the backing of president trump to actually zero out usaid, which has been something that people are focused on forever. so in that regard, he's doing a good work, i don't think and i don't think you can do it. regulatorily have an outside consulting firm actually take over the control of the payments from the government. but scott bessent and i think t

steve bannon talks about that word.on musk, the ultimate billionaire, the richest person alive, there's nothing populist or down about how they're trying to use power. so the person i just quoted who's part of this up down argument against the traditional, perhaps antiquated left right. he and a labor left right. he and a labor leader join us right after i'm thinking of updating my kitchen... —yeah? —yes! ...this year, we are finally updating our kitchen... ...doing subway tile in an ivory, or eggshell... —cream?... —maybe bone?... don't get me started on quartz. a big big island... you ever heard of a waterfall counter?... for everyone who talks about doing that thing, and, over there. but never does that thing... a sweet little breakfast nook. chase has financial guidance. let's see how you can start saving to make this happen. —really? —really? really. at home or in-person. you could also check out a chase money skills workshop. that's guidance from chase. make more of what's yours. if you have heart failure or chron

i mean, he's tangled with trump ally steve bannon, vivek ramaswamy, any idea what that's about? and how do the formal members of trump's administration, including siouxsie wiles, how do they feel about musk's constant presence and direct access to the president? >> well, there are certainly people around trump who find musk to be an irritant, at least, who are jealous of his power and his access, who think he's a johnny come lately, who thinks he's causing, you know, as much trouble as he is, you know, benefit. there's no doubt there are people around trump who feel that way. remember, he trump wasn't even friends with musk until really last summer. musk supported desantis in the primaries. they're not like long term friends. this is a johnny come lately friendship, but it comes with $288 million. that's what musk invested to elect donald trump. and that gets you a lot of, you know, a lot of leeway. and i think trump likes to some extent, a disrupter. but the question is whether he can tolerate somebody who occupies the spotlight as much as elon musk does. we saw this week the p

that's why you've got steve bannon and other people on the right attacking elon musk. steve bannon has said he is a truly evil person who should not be running the us government. so at some point, we've got to wake up beyond party lines for all americans to see what's going on here in this rapidly expanding and accelerating coup. >> very quickly, just before we go, very quickly, the elon musk's doge is now in the medicare and medicaid agency. i will note that pam bondi has ended the fbi effort to combat foreign influence in u.s. politics, maybe allowing bribery to come back and force foreign bribery very, very quickly. congressman, apparently, the security clearance of the former president of united states, joe biden, has now been revoked by donald trump. your very quick response. >> well, you know, trump has his petty grievances and his recriminations and the vengeance that he wants to exact against particular people. but watch elon musk, because what he's doing is taking control of the systems themselves. and so he wants to effectuate a complete transformation in our

i am trying to find -- he was on steve bannon's show, mr. patel claimed he did not have anything to do with the january 6 choir which includes january 6 rioters who violently assaulted police officers. he said he got the idea to record. we took that to the studio and we mastered and digitized it. that is a direct contradiction under oath of his involvement. what difference does it make? the recording? move on. the recording was of a political prisoners who stormed the capitol and assaulted 140 of our best and brightest and most well-trained people to guard us every single day. the capitol police and their d.c. counterparts. some people were trying to lionize the city's effort by these thugs who stormed the capitol and were screaming out to hang vice president pence. i hope we do not fall into a trap of trying to rewrite history of what happened on january 6. it was an atrocious display. the wonderful people who guard us every day in this capitol. there are some people when we went to this hearing the disparaged the very thought these people

and steve bannon is actually saying if you really cared about what you were saying, steve bannon all in on trump criticizing elon. here's what he said. >> the one. >> at $1. >> trillion. >> is across the. >> potomac. >> you know, get. >> an. >> uber. >> send a send an army. the visigoths over there before a federal judge tries to shut you down. and let's get into something. we can have some meaningful cuts. >> muslin back, saying, bannon's a great talker, not a great doer. would he get done this week? nothing. okay, but i'm interested, katie. i mean just that that that's out in the open. that's an open warfare. >> right? right. i mean, look, i think that, you know, bannon has taken issue with musk on several occasions. this is not sort of new for him to be launching this kind of this kind of attack. i do think it it calls back to some of the reporting that we published this week, though, around this consternation among trump's inner circle with regards to what musk and doge are actually doing. you know, and then i would also say with regards to elon's response, again, going back to w

he created this musical undertaking and was proudly proclaiming it to steve bannon, the hard work he went through to master it, digitize it and create musical work that could be played to the trump rallies. when we asked him about it he could not remember any part of it. that kind of evasion betrays the fact that he sighedd with the prisoners when he should have sided with the police and i think that will haunt him. asked him about a fellow named stu peters. i do not know him but he is supposedly a neo-nazi and white supremacist who has a podcast. it turned out mr. patel could not remember stu peter's. he appeared on his podcast on eight different occasions. i have to question whether or not this man is ready to take over the job and guide the men and women who dedicate their lives to the safety of the united states. something has happened since his testimony. the trump administration and their approach to the department of justice. they are in the process of trying to rewrite history. they want january 6 to turn out to be a whitewashed event in history rather than the terrible embar

he created this musical undertaking and was proudly proclaiming it to steve bannon the hard work he went to to master, digitize it, and create a musical work that could be played at the trump rallies when we asked him about it in the committee he couldn't remember any part of t didn't know who the singers were. wasn't sure what i was talking about. that evasion betrays the fact he sided with the prisoners when he should have sided with the police. that i think is something that's going to haunt him as he pursues this position with with the f.b.i. i then asked him about a fellow named stu beaters. i don't know him -- peters. but he is supposedly a neo-nazi, anti-semitic person, political theorist who has some sort of podcast. it turned out that mr. patel couldn't remember stu peters, who would he snb he appeared on his podcast eight different occasions. eight different occasions couldn't remember him when i asked about him. i have to question whether or not this man is really ready to take over this job and guide these men and women who dedicate their lives to the safety of the united sta

the title for the article was is steve bannon the second most powerful man in the world? nnon was gone from the administration. so what are the chances times elon cover bothers trump? >> i think it could. there's one key difference between bannon and musk as far as their relationship to trump. and i interviewed bannon about on this about two months ago at a at a maga conference in arizona. and, and he acknowledged this off the record and that was that. musk has his own power base, which which is the quarter billion that he spent to help trump the money that he's pledged to support trump loyalists in primaries in 2026, and also his his huge following that he has on his social media account. so getting into a fight with musk is a little bit trickier for trump than getting rid of some of the stooges that he's gotten rid of in the past. i mean, trump has a lot, or musk has a lot more power than corey lewandowski or some other random trump staffer who flew a little too close to the sun and then got fired. so i think it's a trickier situation for him, but i do think it's going t

his own cover story is steve bannon, the second most powerful man in the world. late night host were joking about bannon being the actual president at the time, and mr. trump did not like that. and he was out of the white house by that summer. now this is a different trump than 2017. he seems to have a less i mean, he's creating chaos, but it seems intentionally so. and there seems to be at least less public infighting at the white house. what do you think? is musk not going to get the bannon treatment? >> it's hard. >> to say. i mean. >> the last time we. >> did. >> a deep dive on elon musk. >> and what we expected for. >> him to do in this. >> administration, it was back. >> in november, soon. >> after. >> the elections. >> and at the time, i. think we and a lot of people were. >> expecting this relationship to be pretty rocky. >> both of. them have. big egos. >> they're used to being. >> in charge. >> they're not used to sharing the. >> limelight with anyone. but i think this relationship has proven more resilient than. >> many expected. >> but still, there's a

and anyone around donald trump knows that trump was famously upset at his aide, steve bannon, upstaging him on that cover i showed you and mentioned yesterday the time magazine cover with the storyline about bannon, not trump, but bannon being this great manipulator, which implied that it was bannon really calling the shots. now, that concern or that dynamic has even more evidence right now with all of the stories we and our colleagues here at msnbc and many print reporters have been documenting that. obviously, musk is calling big shots, and now he's getting presidential type press reporters documenting this. and we know trump obsesses over press coverage. now we have the same glory bestowed on an adviser that we know upsets trump. both of them, even whether you consider it playfully or even disrespectfully referred to as a president, president bannon, can anyone stop president musk? that's from this month. and then out in the public, people on the internet using social media? of course, musk is a social media baron himself. they're getting in on this with jokes and trolling about dona

pro-business wing that wants regulation, tax cuts and there is the more radical, populist, maga crew, the steve bannon adjacent crew that is anti-immigration and anti- abortion. they make strange bedfellows. >> not so friendly with the constitution either. >> debatable. we have seen these two factions clash over the says, how do you predict this dynamic will play out as the trump administration unfolds? >> h1b visas is a great example. you have a trump guard against elon musk and the techno-types. i think trump and elon musk are two tomcats in one pillow sack and it's going to end badly is my prediction but who knows, i have been wrong before. right now, the populists are in power. are we going to have a reformation or not? the key to that is will trump have long-term political success or failure. parties do what they think works. >> to democrats capitalize on a class like this? is there an inevitable clash that immigrants can capitalize on? >> let's back up. this apology that you all have that there is a split in the republican party. there is no split in the republican party. it is all trump. get ov

steve bannon, in an interview with the new york times and one of the articles today, talked about how surprised he was that republicans have just let donald trump run roughshod over federalism. >> yeah, i think that's exactly right. so many pillars of what we used to think of as kind of core republican ideology have been reversed or simply ignored by donald trump. and certainly the argument that there should be a weak federal power and a strong decentralized state power that has been at the core of what we associate with the modern republican party. interestingly, katie, now, not only do you see many democrats making that argument or leaning into that argument, but i've noticed that in the lawsuits that have greeted some of these executive overreach actions by donald trump at the beginning of his tenure, what you see is essentially two different americas, and you have the democratic attorneys general of states that have democratic leaderships filing lawsuits and as a collective. right. so you had, i think, 22 or 23 democratic attorneys general on the lawsuit against the birthright cit

steve bannon was the president's advisor during trumps. first to well been and hasn't returned to the white house off the he and trump fell out. it would appear. his strategy never left. the us presidents has wasted no time in alienating is big is trading partners, antagonizing allies and be will during critics. we're going to put very serious terrace on mexico and canada because canada they come to canada to and the drugs that are coming through our at record numbers, the headache for the trump administration. sometimes he's old, talk the large, the black, the kind of the launch the back down in mexico, panama. and so he has this deliberate policy, as we know, it's a state of the policy of some of the advisors are coming out to some of the shopping things, but it's almost impossible to, to focus on any of them. oh is off to the state department, announced us vessels would be passing through the panama canal, free the panama canal, or florence. he issued a statement translated here, denying any changes to its fees trumps gamble. in this ca

all about doing what is happening right now and so they are trying to deconstruct, as i think steve bannon the administrative state, and as i said last week, president trump and elon musk in particular are taking a wrecking ball to the federal government by sowing chaos and confusion and fear, but he's following through on what he promised to do. geoff: how do you see it? matthew: i think jonathan is right. this was a promise made, promise kept, as they like to say in trump world. the important thing to understand about trump is he wants to deliver results. he always feels as though the political class that preceded him talk to big game but never accomplished anything. so we had the grace commission during reagan, al gore's reinventing government, the commissions dealing with the debt and taxes during the obama years. nothing happened. and so here elon musk says he wants to treat the federal government like a new acquisition. donald trump says go for it. let's see what happens. geoff: what about the question democrats are raising, you know, where are the guardrails? it was going to stop th

project 2025 is all about doing what is happening right now, so they are trying to deconstruct as steve bannonve state, and as i said last week, president trump and elon musk are taking a wrecking ball to the federal government by sowing chaos and confusion and fear, but he is following through on what he promised to do. geoff: how do you see it? >> i think jonathan is right. this was a promise he made to, promise kept. what is important to understand about trump is he wants to deliver results. trump always feels the political class that preceded him talk to victim but never accomplish anything. we had ronald reagan, al gore reinventing government, commissions dealing with taxes during the obama errors. here he is. elon musk says he wants to treat the federal government like a new acquisition. donald trump says go for it and let see what happens. geoff: where are the guardrails? who was going to stop any of this. democrats in congress do not have any power and republicans in congress are moving in lockstep. at the courts cannot keep up with the velocity of the trump administration. is there an

and the steve bannon gravy boat. that's why they call him sloppy steve, what a mess he is.he donald and melania 20th trump versary china collection. own it today for 12 easy payments of $89999999.99. available wherever dangerous lead products are sold. [ cheers and applause ] >> jimmy: mazel tov. we have a good show for you tonight. danielle deadwyler is here. we've got music from larkin poe. and we'll be right back with jesse eisenberg. new to the big city? yeah. -i'm mara. -hi. apparently progressive lets homeowners and renters bundle with their auto policy. 24/7 protection for all of my...things. [ scary music playing ] [ gasps ] hey, i love that you protect all my stuff, but could you tone down the creepiness? sorry. i'd do anything for you, emily. -still creepy. -right. is your pad ready for the unexpected gush? ♪ new always ultra thin is. it's made to give you that cleaner, drier, fresher pad feeling. all day long. always gush ready. if you take or have taken humira for moderate to severe crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis and still have symptoms... you don't have

. >> steve bannon's. >> podcast. >> that's how a prosecutor rolls. following yesterday's fbi firings, the top democrat on the house intelligence committee, senator jim himes, said that patel had, quote, misled the senate on his answers regarding the administration's plans for weaponizing the federal government. while there have been reports that some republican senators have privately expressed concerns about patel's fitness to head and head the fbi. no republican senator, unless this has happened in the last ten minutes, not one has publicly opposed his nomination yet. and as such. as of now, patel appears to be on track to be confirmed for the position of director of the fbi. for more on this, i'm joined by joyce vance, former united states attorney for the northern district of alabama. she's also a senior fellow at the brennan center for justice, co-host of the sisters in law podcast, and an msnbc contributor and columnist. tim weiner joins me, too. he's a pulitzer prize winning reporter and the award winning author of the books enemies a history

you know, for trump, i think that this is basically the playbook of his former strategist, steve bannon, who always said attack relentlessly, basically create so many stories, so much activity, and do it at a velocity and scale that no one can latch on to anything. and that's really what we're seeing. you know, democrats don't know what to focus on. it's usaid tariffs. canada is a 51st state. the emergency declaration at the us-mexico border, seizing greenland, reclaiming the panama canal. i mean, it's all really coming at democrats at a breakneck speed. it's just this firehose of policies and rhetoric. and i really think that they don't know which way to turn. so it's been disorienting. >> so, yeah, if they don't know what to focus on, i mean, it seems as if one thing that they are focusing on is, is elon musk, right? sort of, you know, getting more opposition, i guess, around him versus versus donald trump. is that a winning strategy for democrats? do you think? >> well, you're absolutely right. if you look at polling data, elon musk's approvals are going down as donald trump's are st

when steve bannon said that the media is too lazy and dumb to keep up with him, i was ashamed becausean't keep up with him. i was keeping score in the beginning because there was so much winning, you know, and i was doing a little bit of gloating. and now i'm just every day you wake up to a new headline like, oh, panama, greenland, the usaid. i mean, he's he's incredible, i don't know. i honestly don't know how he's doing it. >> you know, if you're against what he's doing, all you're doing is complaining. but these are good things for the country. so i guess he's right. you're not going to get tired of winning when you hear him say, never give up. i know you're highly motivated, jillian michaels. how do you think the country takes that? >> well, i'm hoping they're inspired. i can tell you personally, having gone through hardships in my life and knowing that success is a matter of attrition and you persist. but this is a guy that has been sued so many times with criminal charges. just one lawsuit is enough to make you lose hair and lose sleep, right? this guy endured all of that and th

this week and that's the cover in february during trump's first year in office, first istration, steve bannonn after was he out of the administration. a lot of people thinkk th won't last forever. >> well, first, you have in one man the greatest technologist and entrepreneur of our time and the other is a -- comparing them is not even a fair comparison. i think musk has real run room and the reason is because he's actually doing things and he's making incredible moves to transform the government. i mean, many people would say this is a very needed tranansformatin. we are spending 6 trillion. we are taking in roughly 4 trillion. we have a trillion of interest. it's unsustainable. something has to give and trump's force of nature and musk's a force of nature will ultimately do a lot of good for the united states long term. >> i guess the biggest line-items when you talk about the department of defense, if you are really trying to cut the budget a little bit or bring the numbers down you have to look thea the department of defense, you would have to take on social security, medicare, medicaid, t

you know that there are a lot of very right wing maga republicans like steve bannon, who. >> are completely. >> opposed to elon musk. >> and what he's doing. >> bannon has called him a truly evil person, and laura loomer has warned of what they're trying to do in terms of creating a techno state monarch in the new century. obviously, elon musk has much bigger plans than donald trump, who, you know, we know just wants to become the richest person in the world and get all. the attention. >> but elon. >> musk would really like to completely overthrow our system of government and move us into some kind of techno monarchy. under the geniuses of silicon valley. >> i find it fascinating that in all of this, no one's really leveled up. the fact you just touched on it, congressman, that elon musk is a government contractor, right? >> spending billions. >> of dollars, billions of dollars of government on 18 plus individual contracts with the us govt. why why aren't we exposing those people? what's in those contracts? because those is not going to look at those contracts. >> yeah. >> well why doesn't

schiff: so you were lying to steve bannon and his audience? mr. patel: no, i was using the pronoun "we" appropriately. sen. schiff: the proverbial "we." you certainly promoted the hell out of i no. mr. patel: i? mr. patel: promoted the heck out of it? mr. pat raising money for families in need. sen. schiff: saying you are going to get this to number one on the billboards, right, mr. patel. mr. patel: i think it did. sen. schiff: yes it did. isn't that great, people who violently attacked police have a number. you claim you didn't know about any of the people are the choir, right? mr. patel: i didn't know about the violent offenders and i didn't participate in any of the violence in the violence in and around january 6. sen. schiff: what due diligence did you do to find out who was in the choir before you promoted their beautiful music, these people who assaulted law enforcement? what due diligence did you do? mr. patel: senator, i did not record it myself. sen. schiff: you didn't know due diligence before you promoted the song? mr. patel: senator,

here is how steve bannon, trump's former chief white house strategist, explains it. >> these guys come with a silicon valley attitude of break things and do it fast. obviously, there's a different regulatory structure within the government. i think it will get worked out. i think they're going to bring to the surface many fights that have been going on that haven't really got public attention. i would just tell you, like in, like in film, you'll fix it in post. >> you'll fix it in post. and of course, though there are some things, especially in government, that once they're broken, they are just that they are broken. sources telling cnn that the cia sent the white house an unclassified email containing the first name and last initial of everyone the agency has hired in the last two years. the email could have exposed the employees identities to foreign hackers. it was sent to comply with one of president trump's executive orders. so his vision and musk's portfolio, of course, only growing. they have. let's just tick through a couple of these things that they've done right in the past.

but guess what he did that he actually agreed with steve bannon on his podcast or joe page that that should happen. that is what we are seeing right now. and the kash patel part of this is an unbelievable problem for public safety in america. >> it raises lots of questions. but one of them, for the moment, you mentioned from the hearing where he either lied to all of your faces or he was out of the loop. i don't know the answer to that, but do you think, given the news on friday, this this gives members of your committee justification for delaying the vote on him? i. >> i hope so. you know, we have people on the committee, republicans. the democrats, of course, are opposed, but we have republicans that have been prosecutors before. we have people like senator grassley as the chair who cares about things like whistleblowers and how agencies function, and listen to what kash patel said. kash patel actually said that they should close down the fbi headquarters, where the major terrorism and cyber investigations happen. he said that earlier he just ignored it when i tried to ask him, did

but at this point, you know, i'm with steve bannon and laura loomer and the people on the right who are watch elon musk because he's the guy who's trying to centralize all power behind him, and he hasn't been elected to anything. >> when you say that, as you did today, and we played the clip of it, that that we're going to stop elon musk. what do you see as the most effective means of opposition to that, the scale of what you're describing there? >> well, every democratic means available to us now, fortunately, because they think they're dictators, they're trampling the civil service law. i mean, the heart of civil service law is you can't fire people for political reasons. that's why we have a civil service, as you know. and yet they are being very open and explicit about their doing that. i mean, to the extent people are given any justification at all, it's that we don't think that you can successfully forward the agenda of president trump, which is not an acceptable justification for firing people who haven't had a chance to even work for donald trump. right. these are professional,

ask steve bannon, he doesn't want to look like a puppet. and so that is something that we should all be watching, is whether that relationship changes at all. >> or a puppy once. either one. >> just to underline bold what symone said, her framing about the way that the democrats have chosen to message around this. i want you to take a listen to what what minority leader hakeem jeffries had to say. >> why does elon musk. >> and his. >> minions need access to the names, social security numbers, addresses, birth dates, and bank. >> account information. >> of millions of americans? what we are seeing unfold. is an unlawful. power grab by. a unelected and unaccountable billionaire puppet master who's pulling the strings of house republicans, and apparently the trump administration. >> so on one hand, i think they do a good job there of setting the stakes for americans who are not fbi agents or maybe who are not super invested in what is happening at usaid, to say, just like this is your personal information, do you really want it out there? and

you heard steve bannon say flood the zone, meaning just throw so much out there that it's hard to respondon to it. and i think that this example of prosecutors being fired, literally, prosecutors being fired for putting people in jail that beat the crap out of cops, think about that. that's the sort of thing that we need to emphasize to the american public over and over again and not let, let, let not let trump pull us in every which way and every which direction. and we need to be very vigilant about that. and it's crazy to think about kash patel, who said that he's not sure that joe biden actually won the 2020 election, that this could be someone that's going to be put in charge of the fbi. it's just bananas that he was even nominated, and that people are acting like it's normal. and it's another thing that if he actually gets in there. but those are the sort of things that we need to focus on and center on and again, just not be pulled in. so many different crazy directions that every time this man opens up his stupid mouth. >> all right. representative marc veasey, thank you so much f

. >> as steve bannon has said repeatedly, repeatedly to flood. >> the zone. >> and musk. >> is at the moment moving at a. >> pace faster. >> than i think. plaintiffs and potential civil servants who are feeling under siege at the moment. >> within. their agencies. >> who are facing. really close deadlines to. >> have to. >> potentially agree. >> to. >> these deferred. >> resignations that have been sent out. >> to every. >> single federal. employee at a fast. >> enough rate. >> to organize. >> and. >> resist what is. >> going on. >> in time to. >> sort of hit these deadlines. >> before they're. >> actually sort. >> of physically forced out of the building. >> but essentially, what. >> we have learned. >> that musk is doing is. >> sort of taking. >> his spacex, his. >> tesla. >> his managerial playbook, and trying to apply that to the federal government right. >> now, of course. >> you know, it remains to be seen whether donald trump and. musk have ultimately the same. altruistic goals and motivations. >> here at. >> the end. >> of the. >> day. >> or whether they there. >> are some. ul

comments about gaza the strategy, something that trump's former chief white house strategist, steve bannon, candidly described during trump's first term. >> the opposition party is. >> the. >> media, and the media can only because they're dumb and they're lazy. they can only focus on one thing at a time. all we have to do is flood the zone every day. we hit them with three things. they'll bite on one, and we'll get all of our stuff done. bang bang bang. these guys will never, will never be able to recover. >> and of course, that was the version of that flood the zone without the word that we're not supposed to say on television. his actual quote, flood the zone with joining me now, kevin fry, washington correspondent for new york one. kevin, good morning. where would you like to start? which piece of the flooded zone? well, should we begin with? >> i mean, maybe. >> there's even a better phrase for this variation, which might be move fast and break things to just steal something from silicon valley and elon musk effectively, because to to kind of bounce off of what senator smith was just s

steve bannon, 2019 classic. six years later, that tactic flooding the zone is in full swing again in just the last two weeks and three days, the new trump administration has already granted clemency to each and every january 6th convict and defendant, and launched a purge of the fbi and the justice department. it has all but eliminated the world's leading global aid agency and frozen spending, or tried to on thousands of federal programs, including vital scientific and medical research. the world's richest man with the president say so. and the help of a half dozen or so unelected computer wizards. one one reportedly just 19 years old, has gained access to the treasury's formerly nonpartisan office for paying out trillions of dollars a year, including medicare and social security. the president has threatened our two closest trading partners with the kind of tariffs traditionally reserved for adversaries or enemies, and is offered incentives to quit. to every single person at noaa, the hurricane forecasting peop

. >> steve bannon telegraphed they would be trying to flood. >> the zone. >> he said specifically, theyoverwhelm. >> the media's capacity. and i was trying to think about what i wanted to write. >> this morning. >> about how we find that. >> signal amid. >> the noise. >> as you were saying. >> and looking. >> at all these things. >> from from. >> trade wars that are. that are, that are stupid and, you. >> know, ill advised to, frankly, the. >> ethnic cleansing. that the. >> president proposed yesterday in the gaza. >> strip to turn it into the third. >> 51st state. that he has proposed all these things. but i think one of these. >> things is not like the other. >> and i think elon musk. >> right now. >> it should be said, is waging an. >> anti-constitutional coup. >> in this country, attempting to. usurp as. >> a wealthy. >> private citizen the power of congress. frankly, he's usurping. >> some of the. president's power. >> but he's certainly usurping. >> congress's power. >> he is unilaterally trying to go in to agencies and shut them down, not advise, but go in physically into offices

steve bannon's famous quote is flood the zone. and when they flood the zone, their hope is that we'll do what a lot of people are doing right now, which is say it's chaos. there's nothing we can do. we might as well just let them run the whole damn country for four years. we can't allow that to happen. history has shown with this president, too, that if we speak up, sometimes we'll be successful, sometimes we won't be, and we'll delay and we'll fight and we'll obstruct those things. but we can't do nothing now. >> and i'm not i'm not advocating for people to sit down. in fact, i'm telling them to do the exact opposite. but when i see something like i just saw which millions of people saw, which is you're a congressman, you are a congressman, and you and others like jasmine, crockett, etc, you can't even enter a federal building. you so it's hard for, i think, a lot of americans to watch this happen, maxwell, and just sit back and say to themselves, how am i going to be effective? how many times can i call, you know, people in dc l

and the strategy here, as steve bannon has said repeatedly, repeatedly to flood the zone. and musk is at the moment moving at a pace faster than i think, plaintiffs and potential civil servants who are feeling under siege at the moment within their agencies, who are facing really close deadlines to have to potentially agree to these deferred resignations that have been sent out to every single federal employee at a fast enough rate to organize and resist what is going on in time to sort of hit these deadlines before they're actually sort of physically forced out of the building. but essentially, what we have learned that musk is doing is sort of taking his spacex, his tesla, his managerial playbook, and trying to apply that to the federal government right now, of course, you know, it remains to be seen whether donald trump and musk have ultimately the same altruistic goals and motivations here at the end of the day, or whether they there are some ulterior motives that that is something that i don't think anyone has really gotten to the bottom of. but the ultimate plan here

this is part of a strategy which his outrider, steve bannon, once called flooding the zone.s idea that we're just going to throw lots of different policies at the wall and see what sticks. and that has two implications. one is the policy implications that you have new policies that may come into effect. but the second is that it really changes the political weather almost 100 years ago, political scientists called e.e. schneider writing about tariff policy, actually said policy new policy creates new politics. and that's very much, i think, what president trump is trying to do with his executive orders by implementing these existing. sorry. >> yeah. no, just on that note, exactly on the politics of it. but, you know, even if you put politics aside, i mean, there are serious concerns about how much access this doge team has to finance payroll and so on. and, and many states are suing to stop that team from accessing the treasury department data. and this is going to be, as i kind of talked about earlier, i mean, this is going to be a recurring theme when it comes to the actua