. >> and steve clemens, we have a report of alleged war crimes and we have not independently validated at nbc, but it looks as though these charges will certainly flavor the syrian opposition's approach at these talks. >> not only the syrian opposition but you're going to begin to see a constituency of the united states saying this is looking more and more like a rwanda humanitarian disaster under president obama's watch and nobody is doing anything. we've had 55,000 photos of torture and crimes and murtd done by the regime and i think it's going to make it harder to come forward with the deal in geneva. most people look at geneva are realizing this may be folly particularly without iran. that this is looking more like process than any kind of deliverable in the end. >> let's talk about iran. you've been visiting, robin, and your tenure going back to the hostage taking, really, 33 years ago yesterday was the day they arrived, hostages, 33 hostages arriving after 444 days in germany. now we've got this big fallout on the nuclear front. but as hard as the administration is trying to keep

. >> for more on all of this, i'm joined by steve clemens, editor at large for the atlantic joining us from munich, where he's at the security conference that secretary kerry is flying to. let's talk about the whole nsa issue because i think angela merkel's spokesman said among other things in munich, that they would return him if he were to go. there's a lot of pressure as you know better than anyone in germany. public pressure to let him come and get some sort of asylum there. >> well, i think that this is an enormous issue and you saw it in a way when the german foreign minister responded to john kerry today and said trust has been lost between germany and the united states. i spoke to angela merkel's advisers today and they themselves said the mistake the united states is making and sometimes is thinking this is about her phone calls when in fact every european and every german is saying this as a -- as an issue of their individual liberty. and they saw the united states as a protector and defender of those individual liberties and see that image of the united states tarnished and

icing i isolation booth we call it steve clemens, the washington editor at large who writes extensivelyolicy, i hope you are not clauft ro phobia. i will start with you because of your isolation booth status. >> thanks, steve. >> the big break through in november was the announcement they are if geneva, the bake frame for a deal has been struck. now we are talking about the actual details of that finalized and hammered out. what is it that this final deal you think is going to look like and what is it that the hawks here in the united states congress, democrat and republican alike what is it that i are afraid of in this dell and what is it they're trying to do? >> well, just very quickly, there are elements, we know the outline of the iran deal which they will dispossess nuclear enrichment and stop the nuclear pros seging programs. they will let inspectors into parts we haven't seen before. both sides are cozying up to an action plan, primarily about logistics. i am fairly certain it will proceed. it was put on hold temporarily when the treasury department and under secretary david cohe

. >> joining us now is steve clemens editor at large for the atlantic, msnbc contributor. ome, steve. >> thank you. >> i want to ask you, is there anything different about this white house push for peace? >> absolutely. john kerry's made ten trips as you said, and he's put forward a framework proposal to mahmoud abbas in palestine. we need to understand the outline of eventually. but this is what the obama administration should've and probably could've done in january of 2009 when the president came in. john kerry is a remarkable secretary of state because he's not having envoys and others do this work. he's putting himself and his credibility on the line in a very direct way in this. and he's basically outlining for the israelis and palestinians what he thinks, what the u.s. government thinks could be the outlines of a deal. and this just hasn't happened in many years. it's a remarkable step forward, at least in terms of what we're doing. we'll have to see how the israelis and palestinians react. but i find it very, very impressive. >> yeah, no, i think that's an important

joining me now to discuss the gates book is washington editor at large of "the atlantic" steve clemensnd congressional medal of honor recipient colonel jack jacobs. thank you so much for joining me. steve, as a former staffer, i kind of gristle at the idea of these tell-all books, particularly while the person is still in office. but just in general, there's sort of an unspoken kind of -- i don't know, you just don't do that. >> well, i think that bob gates, who, you know, served eight presidents and most importantly he was the bridge between the george w. bush administration and barack obama. he's seen it all. he's been through both wars. i've given him a lot of credit in my writing for really saving the day at the end of the bush administration and keeping things that were already bad from getting a lot worse. i have a loot of respect for him. but he's really mugged his colleagues. i think in a very detrimental way. and it's the world according to bob. in a sense, i've begun to look at the book itself. it's very much a holier than thou book and doesn't realize these binary judgments

ayman and steve clemens covers international affairs and msnbc contributor.ion here, how much in jeopardy is the future of america's operation in afghanistan at this point? >> well, the argument can be made both ways. one of the things the u.s. demonstrated, it is willing and capable to act anywhere in the world in countries where it doesn't necessarily have true presence on the ground. we've seen it in libya and somalia and elsewhere. if the united states does not sign this security agreement with afghanistan, and is required to move, withdraw its troops, it will still have the capability and desire to act in afghanistan when and where it chooses. >> does the security pact get signed? >> i think ultimately afghanistan will sign it but right now i think hamid karzai is trying to extrapolate from the u.s. political concessions as much as possible going forward. this is -- the counting clock for him because he has to step down towards april. >> i want to play something president obama said during a major national security speech. >> beyond afghanistan, we must

[applause] >> please welcome to the stage, steve clemens, rosa delauro, carol aaronreik, and gill beganapplause] >> greetings, everyone. [inaudible] we're going to be spending a whole day together. >> just before we start on this great panel with three phenomenal women, on the subject of why women are on the brink, just commend the speakers that we just had up here onstage. [applause] those of us who live in this town, we live around a lot of rich people, we work in media. there's a proliferation of the most powerful women conferences out there. but it's very rare that you get people who just see a different ide of life. these are powerful women we just saw. congratulations to all of these people dealing with some very tough circumstances. we have rosa delauro here who is just a wonderful force in congress. 12-term congresswoman. she's been working with nancy pelosi on a fantastic women's agenda. we have carol gill began. was the first gender studies rofessor at harvard. d the author who wrote "nickel and dimed." people can't afford to be poor. it's just too expensive to be poor. i want

clemens and the hall of fame why or why not. again the call to january a series of specials here at 9:00 steve young will be on a and also a littlebout bonds audubon's the way it works here we'll use jackie tonight are the it on something with the director i will not force him in a position that he's not. >> : laughter. >> : normally when i turn the camera set for a shot of from alaska into jackie and pam says is that we get a good cheddar. >> : were not family. pam >> : we are family. >> : laughter. >> : we get a video that says we will begin a videotape that saying we are running a public area if saying it is gary goes i'm go. until then it's every man for itself. we've done that now for you but we've done that in the past because i am a family member. >> : the approved me that had enough of areas are worth it now know. >> : pam >> : will never say that the matter say that. >> : gary saying if it's me. hey it's scary i'm leading to. >> : and i watched i do miss anything. pam is one person that might stick up for it. >> : . you're young and you're happy that's in >> : laughter. >> : what a bond with bonds giants fans say that i