and with that thought, we start the night with two entrepreneurs who fight for freedom, steve forbes, of forbes magazine, and john alison chairman of one of the biggest banks in america. on this show we talk about providing people the power to prosper, but, john, i'll start with you, some people would say you bankers don't give people that, you just move money around and grab a big piece for yourself. >> if i can use a healthy economy what about allocating capital to people who deserve it. and we see a problem in the banking system and allocating capital and-- >> i include you as a fighter for freedom, because when the bailouts came, you said, we don't want this money and you spoke against it. few bankers did. >> that's true. i actively lobbied congress not to approve the tarp, the bailout program, and it was a tough exercise in that only the ceo of a large bargaining to tarp-- >> how did it work? the regulator called up and said-- >> well, i wrote congress. i was supposed to be the tarp path. we got a call from primary regulator. we were one of the largest banks in america, he said y

of forbes inc., steve forbes. >> good morning, gretchen, how are you? >> very fine. you said a long time ago you were supporting rick perry. you've known him for 10 years and you were impressed with his tort reform in texas but why are you keeping with him when a lot of people say hey, you're a business guy, too, you should be for mitt romney. >> well, i think that rick perry has shown not only does he have good ideas like the flat tax, like regulatory reform, but he's demonstrated in texas he knows how to create an environment for job creation starting with the tort reform keeping bad taxes away and the like. so he's demonstrated he can perform in the public square. it's one thing to have an idea. quite another to be able to carry through an idea. and while he's had a rough patch so far, i think south carolina is going to be wide open after this mish mash in new hampshire and has a chance to get back in the fray again. >> uh-huh. what is it about mitt romney that he fails to take on tax reform in the way that you would like him to? >> yes. i hope he comes around to

i am david asbin and go in foc us with the man himself steve forbes .ick unger and bill baldwin and vict toria barrett and rich, first to you. there doesn't seem to be fairness here. one case profits are good and another case they are bad? >> this will show you how far obama sunk when he promised to be the great uniter. he can't make a speech without the boggy man. and private aircraft and i assume he does that, too. >> he subsidized foalos like solyndra. it makes no sense and dividing the country and economically ruinous . causes ceo's of inteleto show obama around his plant. it is really, really taking one or two points off of america's gdp and tragic. >> rick, why is it that some profit good and some are bad? >> you know, rich and i must have listen to different speeches. i never heard the president vilify profits. >> he does it all of the time. >> we'll put up a headline from the washington post. president slams oil company profits as prices rise. >> because the washington post put the headline up. it makes it accurate? what the president did do in

capitalism steve forbes for last. he is a rick perry guy . rick perry joined in what mitt romney did vuture capitalism. you love capitalism. do you agree with rick perry. >> the real vulture is the federal government sucking the life blood out of the economy for regulations and taxation and trashing the dollar. it is legitimate for mitt romney to answer questions and did this company take too many dividends and management fees and went broke? >> that only happened four times that. is a good track record. >> but he has to explain those things. heap has to have a full defense of it and make the case for it. but in cases weather where thea -- where they did wrong it doesn't work. >> let me point out when a firm comes in to buy a business that is on the last legs and can turn to no other buyer it is that firm's right to destroy it any way it wants. they make more money if the company succeed. >> the language that you have to destroy misses the point. it is creative destruction. you go in and slim down and turn the thing around and that way you cr

gary bower once upon a time ran for president as did steve forbes, they're both joining us. gary bower, though, very influential in the very conservative circles. are they talking about particular -- one particular candidate? are they trying to winnow it down and figure out who they should throw their support behind. >> carl edwards will be talking to brian. >> back flips as well as co-hosting with kelly ripa. he does back flips. >> newt gingrich will be joining us in the 7:00 a.m. eastern time hour. we have a lot to talk about with newt, how he changed his campaign strategy and rick santorum, another presidential candidate will be joining us as well. stay tuned with us. >> debbie wasserman schultz, colonel allen west, laura ingrah ingraham, frank luntz. we might need a third hour. rick santorum, if we have access to his team sweater vest. >> yeah. >> this is -- if i was a true entrepreneur, i would have done this in 1988. >> i was the sweater vest guy. >> that's right. last night on the hannity program, mr. santorum gave mr. hannity one and i think he would like mr. hannity

steve forbes, kevin madden, romney's former adviser. a good pairing tonight. let me start with you, steve. gingrich was asked today by a santorum supporter about the attack on mitt romney and the supporter was saying hey, go after romney for other things, not this. gingrich seemed to agree, said quote obama just makes it impossible to talk rationally because he's so deeply into class warfare. i agree entirely. it seems like gingrich is backing off romney. should rick perry? >> i think it's first of all, i think you have to make a distinction between equity capital and funds in general. they perform a real service. a few of the companies where they took out dividends, huge management fees then the company went broke. they had a good record long-term, but he should answer those questions. that's legitimate. i think what you're going to see unfold in south carolina and florida is we are going to get real issues with mr. romney. one is does he have a good radical tax proposal to put on the table, which rick does and others have. he has not done that yet. he's also

steve forbes, kevin madden, romney's former adviser. a good pairing tonight. let me start with you, steve. gingrich was asked today by a santorum supporter about the attack on mitt romney and the supporter was saying hey, go after romney for other things, not this. gingrich seemed to agree, said quote obama just makes it impossible to talk rationally because he's so deeply into class warfare. i agree entirely. it seems like gingrich is backing off romney. should rick perry? >> i think it's first of all, i think you have to make a distinction between equity capital and funds in general. they perform a real service. a few of the companies where they took out dividends, huge management fees then the company went broke. they had a good record long-term, but he should answer those questions. that's legitimate. i think what you're going to see unfold in south carolina and florida is we are going to get real issues with mr. romney. one is does he have a good radical tax proposal to put on the table, which rick does and others have. he has not done that yet. he's also

if steve forbes said that government funding is driving tuition up.lain. >> inflation goes up 100 percent and medical costs 220 percent . college tuition. and government subsidizes something it becomes more expense itch. administrative cos the costs. cut the subsidies and the students will get a affordable education . four years and why not three years and take time to get out in the work force. >> morgan. thing. couple of figures for you. federal dollars flood in market inflation. federal aid is up 55 percent in 10 years. is it any wonder that public state tuition is up? and take a walk around t our studen. the money is spent on the self grandoisement. >> i think you are on to something. but what about the pel grants. >> that is not correct. i testified before congress about i.r.s. reform and in that debate was this fact. because they have tax exempt at that timus they save money and instead of reducing tuition they spend it on bling that costs to service. they have to hire more people to take care of that. and it goes to pay role and doesn't reduce

bill: steve forbes live here in new york, from "forbes" media.t me an e-mail or follow me on twitter@bill hemmer or bya. ask anything you want of steve forbes or sqon huntsman coming up in 45 minutes. martha: he is coming up a strong win, second place finish in a very tight race in iowa. now what happened. he raked in a ton of campaign cash. what will he do with it? how will he spend that money coming up. >> someone needs to stand up and say, enough, mr. president. you're not the emperor. [applause] [ woman ] my boyfriend and i were going on vacation, so i us my citi thank you card to pick up some accessories. a new belt. some nylons. and what girl wouldn't need new shoes? we talked about getting a diamond. but with all the thank you points i've been earning... ♪ ...i flew us to the rock i really had in mind. ♪ [ male announcer ] the citi thank you card. earn points you can use for travel on any airline, with no blackout dates. ♪ that's good morning, veggie style. hmmm [ male announcer ] for half the calories -- plus veggie nutrition. could've ha

you come back and win. >> steve forbes, you're supporting rick perry, governor from texas, why? ? reformed the cesspool of the legal system they had in texas and sent the trial lawyers over to oklahoma. so that was a good thing. he's been good on fiscal issues, tax issues, spending issues. he's got the right convictions and he's got the right proposal on the flat tax and he's demonstrated in texas the ability to get things done, and that, i think, will get things done. >> he's got a great record on jobs and a great conservative record and his presidential campaign most would say has been a disaster up to this point. why? >> he, merged early and had mishaps and one of the things that happens whether it's in politics or business or whatever you're going to get a curveball and sometimes it's your fault and sometimes it's circumstances and the key thing people ultimately look for is how do you respond when you get hit hard? i think he showed grace and good humor especially after that debate and picked himself up and went out there and campaigned hard and at the end of the day he'll do

we know that you're up there really high with ross perot and steve forbes. you're the third richest guy in the last 20 years to run for president. you ought to be proud of that. so show us what you pay. get your cell phones out. i want to know what you think. tonight's question. percentagewise, do you think mitt rom mi pays more or less than you do in taxes? text a for more. text b for less to 622639. you can go to our blog and leave a comment there at ed.msnbc.com. i have nothing against anybody doing extremely well. that's what capitalism is all about. that's what america is all about. i think the republicans, what do they call it? oh, american exceptionalism. that's what they call it. hey, go have at it. but when you get there and you want to be in a leadership role, why is it that you want to give more to the top liners and expect these folks down here to pay more taxes? and that is exactly what mitt romney wants to do. that is not where president obama and the democrats are. joining me tonight, msnbc political analyst eugene robinson. also associate edi

>> well, it's a conceptual frame work and would be phil graham who ran for president or steve forbes and we know where they went and to refer to romney, which i'm glad was, he in fact, has said, should bring him on the show, said that the flat tax would be a tax on the middle class, so i'm florida that romney was raised so he could put that point there. >> toby, let's talk about the flat tax itselfment does it it bring jobs? what does it mean for jobs? >> it has, in every country used. it's worked for two reasons, number one, because it simplifies things. if you look at the money that we spend in the united states, they make 90 billion dollars a year to comply with this. so, it unleashes that and creates capital. when you create more capital, you create investment and unlike the democratic party, more capital equals more jobs, and actually one-to-one correlated and this is exactly the type of outcome you get when you go to a flat tax. the only people that are out of jobs, tax attorneys and not good for taxes. >> brenda: jonas, where do you stand on this? >> conceptually, yes, if it's

if you looked at someone like steve forbes as a possibility as treasury, he would certainly have that kind of capability, somebody like a lou layerman potentially at the federal reserve would have that kind of capability. there are a number of that caliber you would want to look at. i don't know if you would take it, but if you thought about somebody like mitch daniel, for example, for health and human services, he is a great innovative governor, was a terrific director of the budget. whether we can lure him back to washington, i don't know. he certainly knows enough. he would be the right kind of person. yes, yes. >> senate gridlock seems to be killing us. do you hate the congress gridlock, and let me tell you. you don't have a president who is willing to get the job done, it is very hard to avoid gridlock. i worked with reagan when tip o'neill was speaker and we found, we had to get one out of every three democrats to vote with us in order to pass the reagan program and we did. when i became speaker, i realized if i couldn't get bill clinton's signature, we could posture all year bu

someone like steve forbes as a possibility at treasury, he would certainly have that kind of capability. someone like a lew lemon at the federal reserve. a number of people of that caliber you would want to look at. i don't know if he would take it, but if you thought about somebody like mitch daniel for health and human services, he certainly knows enough he would be the right kind of person. yes, sixers -- sir? yes? >> [inaudible question] and senate gridlock? it just seems to be killing us. you hate the -- >> the you hate the congress gridlock and let me tell you, if you don't have a president who is willing to get the job done, it is very hard to avoid gridlock. i worked with reagan when tip o'neil was speaker and we found we had to to get one out of every three democrats to vote with us in order to pass the reagan program, and we did. when i became speaker i realized if i couldn't get bill clinton's signature we could posture all year but we wouldn't get anything done so he and i worked endlessly and we passed balanced budgets, passed the first tax cut in 16 years. it took a tremen

steve forbes, editor and chief of forbes media here to answer that question right here. you. >> doing very well, thank you. greg: in the studio with the answer. are we growing or shrinking like the private sector in washington d.c. >> washington always grows. if you don't count the post office up 140,000. the post office is an independent thing and they have real losses, they have been shrinking. since obama has been in charge 140,000 plus. greg: but the post office is in serious debt. >> serious debt, they are down 115,000, net for the feds is 25. but where you don't have the post office the government is still growing very nicely. greg: i want to get your sense here because the "wall street journal" came out with a poll this week and they gave the impression that americans are starting to feel a little better, maybe just a little bit but a little better about their own economic circumstances. do you find the same. >> three years after severe recession it's about time. it's about two years late. if you look at the unemployment numbers you've got a couple of things going

as a leading expert on financial matters, but steve "forbes" couldn't make it. it pretty marketwatch came down to matt mccall and mc hammer. so welcome matt mccall. and hepatitis gets tested to to see if it has contracted him. it is my repulsive sidekick, bill schulz. and he has been voted top comedian and sitting next to me joe derosa. his latest cd is called "return of the sun of depression." please buy these. and his weekend edition is worse than addition. it is our "new york times" correspondent. good to see you, pinch. >> steven holder calls "red tails" quote, pilots who fought to sore above racism. i too often sore above racism. each time they throw me over greg gut field's -- gutfeld's head. >> there aren't anymore paper boys. >> yes, and they are delicious. >> interesting. >> does a character flaw make him a better draw? well, dr. keith ablow thinks so, sign here subjecting gingrich's infidelities means he would make a strong president. wow. the psychologist and fox news contributor notes that, quote, three women have met mr. gingrich and have been so mo

steve forbes has written about it.t means that if you want to keep your tax code with the various breaks, fine. it is also paper work. if you want to fill in one page, i earned this amount, i have this number of dependents, you can do your taxes on one page. you choose which is better for you. that gives us a sense of the right way to approach this. we can take one last question. >> i am john butcher. the mainstream media would lead us to believe that the american people wants the folks in washington to compromise and get something done. given the environment in washington, socialist vs. free enterprise, how you compromise with a socialist? >> i think they have the wrong formula. i made some controversy because i gave a speech to the heritage foundation and said i will cooperate but not compromise. when reagan was elected, a tip o'neill was speaker of the house. we had to get one-third of the democrats to vote for the reagan tax cuts or we could not pass them. when i became speaker, we had bill clinton. i had to get hi

particular i want to say thanks to governor bobby jindal who has just been a fabulous spokesperson, steve forbes, who i -- as i know him more, i admire him greatly. what a fabulous patriotic american and governor sam brownback. senator imhoff, senator miller, sam graves. we have come to have such great respect for and reflect that i love of country. and i want to say a really special thanks to three distinguished veterans who have joined me on the trail. medal of honor recipient mike thornton. he spent the last two days with us as we traveled across south carolina. navy cross recipient marcus latrell. thank you, brother, i appreciate you coming and being with us today. my christian brother up in greenville, and has traveled so many miles with me, young marine captain dan moran. they truly represent what is best about america. who give so much of themselves. and they have been uplifting for me as a citizen, as the commander in chief of our texas forces, and again they are truly my heros. you know, i began this race with a sense of calling. i felt led into the arena to fight for the future of this

my fave from maggie at politico, she writes, steve forbes exit dinner with rick perry at fort des moinesgo cup. thank you, maggie, your prize is in the mail. >> and i couldn't find any restaurants near des moines. look up from your phone, chucklehead. there's more, but why bother, the same spoiled east coaster looking down at anything outside of new york city. and forget twitter, what they say about the people or clothing. i hope iowa will apologize for not reading gq. the media was declaring the race over before it starts. i'm declaring the media over period. thanks to much of their own whiney sel y self-importance. i would stare it it for hours. and i think that it has something to do with this monologue and i don't know why. fox bob, you've been around reporters longer than, i don't know, something that's been around reporters for a long time. are they full of themselves. >> i'm getting over the double mirror. more than i've ever seen and secondly they think they have something new and fresh to say every day when they don't. and about the restaurants. they really do. they go to a crac

>>shepard: and a conservative strategist who used to work for buchanan and steve forbes campaigns, and he believes there could be a coalition coming together, that people across the nation who were conservative, who are very conservative, will say we need to get one of the candidates and support just one. and david lane, a very influential pro, low profile christian conservative wrote an e-mail on friday to some of his folks saying we have to come together around one person. if that one person is you, i am sure you would be happy to accept that coming together. if it is one of the others, would you agree? >>guest: well, right now, i have approached the last few weeks, that back room deals getting behind this person, or this person needs to team with this person. let the people decide. i have done 377 townhall meetings in iowa, let the people of iowa make that decision. let the people of new hampshire and south carolina. don't have folks who think they know best what the people of these states and the people of this country are looking for make that decision. so, i will go out and conti

he doo -- defeated him and coasted against jesse jackson and coasted to the nomination beating steve forbesng for a nomination where romney defeats gingrich and santorum coasts to nomination beating up on ron paul. paul may get twice as many votes as gingrich or santorum which effectively makes it a two way race between romney and somebody who can't possibly get nominated. >> sean: all right. dick morris, good to see you as always for being with us. it's time to check in with gretta van susteren, a sneak peek what she's got coming up. one little studio over. >> i don't know where you are. >> sean: many' in manchester, where are you. >> i'm in manchester and they told me you're down the street, but i even asked. we have a big show tonight and we have governor huntsman and todd palin is going to be joining us and has a big endorsement. and karl rove, and a great show and maybe after your show you'll come and see us because i have no idea where you are, sean. >> sean: you have no-- and. >> and used to say i'm going to e-mail you because i did ask about having you as a guest and i'll e-mail you

perry's coming out with some big guns in the next couple days, he's going to have bobby jindal and steve forbesith him, he claims he's an underdog candidate at this point, and 120,000 votes could decide this thing. so no matter how -- bill: 120,000. martha: yes. you really do not know who's going to walk out of iowa with those top three tickets. bill will that's a very populace appeal. martha: it is. bill: i don't think how long he's been on that, but it creates an image for you. when you think about your family -- martha: and he's trying to keep it about the economy in iowa. those things he's not done as well on with iowa voters, but a lot of indications we have is that iowa voters are focused on the economy despite the fact that there's is a little bit stronger than some other states. bill: now, by the way, there's no other place to watch this, right? martha: why would you watch anywhere else? who would do that? i can't think of anybody who would do that. right here, of course. fox news is the home base for the first in the nation iowa caucuses. we're going to have special coverage of the cau

steve forbes endorsed it and the club for growth said it was the best plan of any of the candidates running for the presidency. 20% flat tax. deduction for home mortgage. get rid of the capital gains tax. get rid of the social security benefits tax and get rid of capital gains. take 20% of that, put it on a post card and send it in and we will get rid of the irs as we know it. [ applause ] >> mike: let's go to the next question for governor you perry. >> and mr. former, i guarantee you even timothy geithner can get his taxes in on time with a plan like that. >> next question, please. >> hello, governor perry. >> good morning. >> i'm diane mckinnon. >> how are you? >> excellent, thank you. >> my question is about your possible vice presidential pick. would you want someone man or woman who would fill the spot, make appearances like the joe biden or would you like someone man or woman who would be actively involved in your administration like a dick cheney? >> mike, what have you got going on next year? >> mike: hosting this show. [ laughter ] >> he was my neighbor. i know this guy knows to c