for more, we are joined by steve goose, director of human rights watch's arms division and co-founderobal campaign to stop killer robots. steve, welcome back to democracy now! if you can start off by talking about why cluster bombs are so heinous. what this treaty is about, and the fact the u.s. has not denied it, that they had to amend the comments of the u.n. ambassador who first said something logical, there is no place for cluster bombs, but then had to remove that tweet. >> yes. thank you very much for having me on. the u.s. has had sort of ar. jekyllnd mr. hyde approached a cluster munitions, where it is going to criticize other people's use but insists on the right to use them itself, as you say, in multiple locations around the world for decades now. the convention on cluster munitions now has 110 states, parties most of the u.s., russia , are not among them, but international law still applies to the use of cluster munitions. this is an inherently indiscriminate weapon. you ask what is particularly heinous about it, it kills civilians at the time of attack because of the wide

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