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larry: steve kind s koonin. so, steve, welcome back.sil f fuels still 80% of total world energy. >> we're spending a lot of money not having much impact and causing a lot of disruption as we try to displace fossil fuels it is not working, emissions aral ouare at all-time high, world needs energy, renewables are not the way to get it. larry: if 80% of world power comes from fossil fuel is this bad. >> if bluff that co2 -- if you believe that c02 will break climate. >> with facts, you are a fact driven guy is that a bad thing. >> i think in terms of overall human welfare it is wonderful, fossil fuels are least expensive and most reliable way for people to get energy they need and world needs more for most people to develop. larry: what don't we know after this whole long period of climate his tearia. what don't we know, what do we know? you spend a lot of time with that, i read first edition of unsettled. >> we don't know is the overall state of the oceans. very difficult to observe it is where climate happens, we have about 10 year's wor

joining us now, steve koonin senior fellow at stanford hoover institution and author of "unsettled: whathe obama administration, you were, undersecretary for treasury -- for science. would you say your views evolved since then, professor, or even then you were somewhat skeptical of some of the assertions? >> i believe that my views have been evolving as we've seen the energy transition, evolve, and as my own understanding and the world's understanding of climate science has evolved as well. after all, i was in the administration about 12 years ago. >> exactly. some of the things you point out and i guess with the backdrop of what happened in some of the european elections, there are times in the past it's been described by people that, where realities sort of collide with very ambitious goals, and maybe one of them that we're seeing now, i think we were at, what? all-time highness 2023 for emissions. and by 2030 we're going to be double the acceptable emissions for the paris climate agreement. we're not even close. >> yeah. indeed. you know, people who are naive about the realities of de