steve pinker, i wish you were on the panel because it would be fun to have steve on the panel with enlightenment now who would say no, you don't have to have that area i think tim is right area i'll make just one other comment before we make it more of a back-and-forth . and that is that both this is what happens when you're 76, you forgot what you were going to say kim, i'm going to let you . >> thank you for bringing up virtue because that i think the theme throughout the book and i grew up, came up with a classical education and aristotle feature, virtue is a habit and one of the things about habits is they require practice so two different times, i use the idea of sort of what about if you like sort of the gymnasium in which to practice virtue? and what is a strong family, what is a good elite public school, what is a big church community, these are the places where these can be practiced. now, i think church communities are the only ones that do that very well because the elite won't call these virtues. there sort of practices. well, for the reason you stay married and get involved in your