you have time warner, which is steve ross took and built up a behemoth over the terms of many, many years and it turned into the largest media company in the world and we've watched it throw off parts again and again. the fact that the last part to go, to be stunned, is the group of magazines that bears its name. >> you think that's significant. >> yeah, in manhattan media. and the adjustments that we made, if you think of jill abram son, who i know you know. >> been on the show. >> she's a newsman to her core. i think she's got the confidence of the room mostly because of the paper she makes. she's been a great reporter. she's been a good editor. and if you're looking at making what i would see as some adjustments on the cost side, i think it's really healthy to be up to the top and look around. think of how healthy the "new york times" is structured, which is it's the top of a mountain at the top of a mountain professionally. so it gathers all these people. and so -- there's this tremendous pressure and at a certain point something has got to give so you end up with a real thick layer o

so -- >> rose: like steve ross. >> but it is. in one sense it's really the same job. it's working with the greatest in talent. this time i get the privilegef paying them. >> rose: (laughs) you sign the check. >> for the shareholders and for sumner but that's really what it is. it's talent. >> rose: so then what happened. is you had within paramount, you're there, you're the c.e.o., the great steven spielberg. the great -- >> martin scorsese. >> martin scorsese. you had there -- >> so many people. >> rose: and the thing with dreamworks didn't work out. you and vid couldn't -- what? get along? >> my regard for david geffen is extremely high. i think that david geffen is one of the greatest not only showmen but one of the greatest businessmen that have ever -- >> rose: why couldn't you make it work at paramount? >> i don't -- i can't really give you a great answer for that other than the fact that when we bought dreamworks we made what we thought was a great al. we h, as i said no development. >> rose: so you were buying development. >> we're trying to jump start -- at t

next, steve ross, who has he homecourt advantage here. he is a professor of history at usc, has written extensively about the working class, social history and film. his first book, focused o t industiziofinnnati. son w wllywood, which focused s the subtitle said, silent film and the shaping of class in america. and his latest book is, hollywood left and right: how movie stars shaped american politics. " and it received a film scholar0s award from the academy of motion picture arts and sciences, and here's that book. then, finally, we have richard schickel, who you might know as the long-time film critic for time magazine and the author of i think more books than everyone else at the festival of books put together. several does...